Brian G

Originally posted by Jim Katen Perhaps their tank is higher than the house and they need to pump the sewage up to it. This house sits on a flatten hilltop, so that's not it. I wonder about field lines...not much place for 'em to go up there except steeply downward. If it's plugged into an exterior receptacle, the receptacle needs GFCI protection and a bubble cover. Roger that. Thanks. Brian G. On the Bubble (cover) [:-wiltel]

About all I could see was a small concrete box open on two sides (roughly 1 ft. x 1 1/2 ft.). It was crammed in between the shrubs and the back wall, under a bay window overhang. The cord came out and plugged into a GFCI a few feet away. The seller told me it was equipment for the septic system, but he didn't know exactly what either. I don't inspect this kind of thing to start with, but the GFCI wouldn't trip so I'm trying to find out what rules or exceptions might apply here. I don't see anything exempting equipment like this in the 2005 Handbook, but I thought I'd pick the collective brains before writing my recommendation. At the least it needs a "bubble" cover. Brian G. Not Up on the Poop Propellers [:-yuck]

I ran across a set-up today, with a septic system impeller-pump thingy plugged into a GFCI outlet at the back wall of the house. This arrangement is very rare in these parts, because our soil perks like Mrs. Olsen. Is there anything I should know about this kind of equipment and GFCI's? Brian G. Compelled to Ask About the Impeller Thingy [:-dunce]

Originally posted by randynavarro The cause was an incorrectly wired multi-wire circuit. Preposterous. They're elegant. [:-dev3] Brian G. You Had to Be There [:-party]

Originally posted by Jim Katen Of course they know that. They're changing it quite deliberately. They want freezers in garages to be GFCI protected. I can't tell if you're serious or this a dose of extra-dry Katen sarcasm. Judging by what you followed with, I'll assume the former until otherwise informed. There is no rule regarding GFCIs and refrigerators in kitchens. I thought the code specified that outlets used for refrigerators did not have to be GFCI protected. Maybe I misunderstood, or picked up a piece of HI folklore somewhere. Outlets that serve countertop receptacles must have GFCI protection. If a fridge is plugged into a countertop receptacle, it must be GFCI protected. Dumb. I wouldn't consider doing it. I'd install a single recepticle and leave the GFCI out of it. Why do you think it's dumb? Enumerate your reasons. I'll just enumerate the big obvious one. If a freezer or fridge is on a GFCI circuit and the device trips, everything inside could be lost (nobody home, nobody notices, etc., particularly on those freezers in the garages). Improved though they are, GFCI's still trip for no apparent reason at times. Why in the world would you want a freezer or fridge on a GFCI circuit? Brian G. Gotta Watch Out for My Marie Callendar Dinners []

Originally posted by JerryM ....it's a well know medical fact that those living in southern states suffer from CA envy. Hah! I'm sure you're already familiar with the phrase most commonly associate with CA in the Great American South. California: the land of (oranges, bananas, etc.) and (peanuts, cashews, etc.). Brian G. And Our Governors Can Pronounce the Names of Our States Correctly [^][]

Originally posted by Scottpat Now, what to do with the 5lbs of tater salad, a dozen or so deviled eggs and that dang leftover fried chicken! As per the fried chicken....do you still have my address? Brian G. Don't Call Me Chicken, Just Send Me Some []

Originally posted by Scottpat Well, I must admit that I lost 15 pounds over 5 weeks when my foot was in a cast back in May and early June! It is amazing what pain pills and being depressed will do to ones appetite! Say Marge, have you heard about that new "Patterson" diet?! Lose 3 pounds a week with no exercise!!! [-crzwom] Brian G. Coming Soon; Scott "The Millionaire" Patterson [:-tophat]

Originally posted by Bonnie Trenga Be suspicious of everything. That's how I find errors. You guys must take the same tack when you're checking a house. You don't assume everything is fine with the house, right? Same with writing. Assume it's wrong, and many times you'll be right. Very good advice, and an even better analogy. Brian G. So Who Are These "Goofy Guys" You Mentioned? [:-clown][)][:-jester]

Originally posted by Kyle Kubs But if I find a distribution box (could serve more then one circuit) and it is not wired with a four wire feed, even if right now it is only serving a single appliance (water heater...), if it has room to snap in another breaker and serve another circuit elsewhere at some time in the future, it is a sub panel and I would write it up as improperly wired. I can understand that, I just don't think all cases are exactly the same. The few times I've left it at a warning about not adding 110's have all been alike. A 6 circuit raintite panel at the rarely-visited end of the house, being used to disconnect two condensers for two different HVAC systems. The HVAC guys did the wiring, they know squat about sub panels, and the supplier didn't have a 4 circuit panel the day they needed one. The expense of rewiring the panel correctly is significant. The danger of not doing so isn't (unless 110v circuits are added later). In those circumstances I choose to explain things to the client and let it go, but I wouldn't fault any other inspector for seeing it differently. Brian G. Speaking Only For Myself [:-cyclops

Originally posted by Jim Katen In the 2008 NEC, the two exceptions will go away. All receptacles in garages, regardless of their location or what appliances are plugged into them, will have to be GFCI-protected. It isn't quite as common as it once was here, but I still see deep freezes in garages now and then. Surely the NEC knows perfectly well that this is one of the more likely "not-easily-moved" appliances, but they're changing it anyway? I'd say that position, under those circumstances, is exactly the reverse of their rules regarding GFCI's and refrigerators in kitchens. I won't be advising my clients to plug their freezers in GFCI protected circuits, no matter what the NEC says. Dumb. Brian G. Sometimes I Wonder Where the Common Sense Goes [:-boggled

I can't think of a single advantage to having a garage door opener on a GFCI. Brian G. I Know Who Would Have to Get the Ladder & Reset It Too [:-irked]

M.S.J., I don't know what kind of electrical panel your testing was done on, but it isn't anything like what we're accustomed to seeing in our work. I doubt if anyone will respond. Brian G.

I just received my copy of Plumbing by Rex Cauldwell I ordered last week (plumbing isn't my strongest subject). On page 151 he writes, in part: "The AAV needs to be around 4 inches above the trap weir (water line)." Is that also okay for mechanical vents? Who knows? He says not to use those at all. Brian G. The AAV: POS or A-OK? [?]

Originally posted by JerryM If you don’t mention the negative ramifications of what may occur your clients may not pay as close attention to your recommendations as you would like. For my meager 2 cents, I also like a bit of a point on the end. My similar "old WH" statement ends with the phrase "before it fails". Also, the “weâ€

Originally posted by homnspector Should this AAV / vent be above the sink rim or at least above the bottom of the sink? I was wondering about the elevation thing myself, just the other the day. I do know that isn't an AAV, it's a mechanical vent. AAV's don't use a spring and last much longer. That hereby exhausts my knowledge of both AAV's and mechanical vents. Brian G. Sometimes a Well, Sometimes a Mud Puddle [:-graduat[:-dunce]

It could be from a lightening (sp?) strike. There's a semi-famous photo of discolored neutrals that's been floating around HI sites for years now; some say too many per terminal, others say lightening. Some kind of unbalanced load is the only other thing that comes to mind, but that's getting too techy for me. Wait & see what Jim K. can offer. Brian G. Techy Trekkie [:-alien]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt How about this. What number of conductors are needed to feed the following subswitches having overcurrent protection for: Case 1: An old ungrounded water heater Case 2: Newer grounded water heater My guess for case 1 is just the two phases and for case 2 the two phases and an EGC. I suppose, but I would probably recommend adding an EGC to the first one anyway. I am thinking now that the only time an extra conductor is needed in the feed is when both a grounded conductor and an EGC is needed on the supply side of the subswitch. Is that correct? Not necessarily. Say you found a large 110v appliance with a disconnect switch. It needs both a grounded conductor and an equipment ground, but 3 wires will still cover that. No 4th is needed because there are no 220's there to use a second hot wire. Offhand I can't think of anywhere other than a sub panel where all four would be needed, but we see some weird stuff. If it's a small panel, something like I described above, the extra spaces are problematic. Do you tell them to have it rewired as a sub panel even though it's only being used to disconnect one or two 220v appliances, or do you explain that it's okay as is, but no 110's can be added without rewiring the panel? I've done the second one a few times. Feel free to jump in here Jim. Brian G. Technically Correct vs. Conservatively Practical [:-fight]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt Do subswitch boxes and subswitches with overcurrent protection downline of the main panel have to have four conductor feeders and isolated ground and neutral busses? For example those 220V subswitch boxes containing breakers or fuses that are usually added clustered around old panels to feed water heaters and clothes dryers etc. I guess we need clarification here Chris. Are we talking about various fused 220v disconnect switches or sub panels with more than 2 circuits? Brian G. Should've Asked Before [:-indiffe

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp .....I've been unfortunate enough to encounter plenty of dumb-as-a-rock HIs whose only skills are dumbassitude, suckupitude and assaholism. [:-dev3][}][:-hspin][:-mischie[:-slaphap[:-smile_g[:-spin] Brian G. Ah, the Art of Wordsmithing [:-thumbu]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt So only subswitches having grounded conductors would need a four conductor feed or only those that also have EGCs? Only those with neutrals/grounded conductors need four wires. The 220v circuits will have the equipment grounds, but the third wire takes care of that on 220v. What gets tricky is when someone uses a small 4 or 6 circuit panel as a 220v disconnect switch, leaving spaces open that some other knothead may hook-up for 110v later. Gotta warn 'em about those. Brian G. Fun Things to Explain to Average Joe [:-headach

If they're only 220v the fourth wire is unnecessary. There is no neutral on 220v. Brian G. In Neutral Today [:-sleep]

Originally posted by ctgo4it I wrote the neutral should be on seperate bars with the bus bar broken to seperate the neutral and ground. A set of bars like that can almost never be separated (by design, at least). What you'll probably need to do there is add a new equipment ground bar to move the bare ground wires to (make sure the enclosure bond is to the new bar, not the old one). All electrical panel manufacturers make those add-on bars. Brian G. A Big Fan of Full Neutral Bars With a Bolt-On Jumper [:-thumbu]

Originally posted by Jim Katen I plead guilty to hyperbole. Honestly though, I think John can work on a much higher level than he's demonstrated with that report. Agreed, but he's as green as a gourd right now. Give him a chance to adjust to the Katen/TIJ ways, o' wise one. Really!?! Please tell me what program that is. You'll have to ask him, but that is the case. No, O'Handley's the cop. As for Simon, well, I've never watched American Idol. Can you re-cast me as someone from So You Think You Can Dance? Maybe I could be Mary Murphy. I've never watched either one, so be my guest. Brian G. Get Kurt on the Dance Show [:-party]

It's a fuzzy picture, but yes, the neutrals and grounds should be on separate, isolated bars (for starters). Brian G. Come On Man, You've Got to Focus!!! [:-scared][]