Gordon

Does the gas code mention any type of partition that is at least 18" tall, to be installed in front of any existing or new water tank, or older boiler systems? Gordon

Around here, they're still in use too. I've seen them in older parts of Elgin, Evanston...ancient pieces of machinery that some people still swear by!

I can certainly understand that, Mike. I would only say it needs to be out of harms way. We have them back here too. In fact, they need to be on Lennox Pulse furnaces...otherwise, the entire house will shake. Just installed where they won't be damaged. But I can see your point. Different areas, have different issues. Not having that much seismic activity in the Chicago area (but having a great deal of political wind in the heart of the city), it wouldn't have occurred to me. Good point of view! Thanks!

When you say no bathroom or roof above...could you clarify that for me, please? Was there a ceiling directly above this? Did the flu look like it had rust forming on it? I have a couple things running through my head, but can't get a complete picture just yet. Was rust forming at the top of the tank, including at the hot/cold pipes at the top of the tank? I'll keep hold of my opinion on this, until all the facts are in. Also...around here, the flex connector (some areas call it an appliance connector) should be called out. It should be changed to hard pipe. Connectors are great pieces of equipment, but they should be in an area where they won't get accidentally bumped into or have anything dropped onto them. And the valve for this connector is not a universal valve-it is specifically designed to be used with the connector it came with, and I can't tell from this picture if that was the case here. After 20+ years at the gas company, I can tell you contractors will tell call it out for replacement. Around here, they call it a Chicago valve (don't ask me...I have no idea why!).

Jim, I would agree if I had the time. I only recently found out about it, and the only reason I'm considering it is because it's 10 miles away. I'm planning on the ASHI conference next Jan., though.

Hey Everyone! I just got my brochure for the NAHI seminars on June 24-26. Now don't get started on associations, or who's better. I'm just curious if anyone's going to attend? I might take in a few classes here and there, since paying the entire fee & attending all the classes wouldn't be beneficial for me...also, I have to work Friday, and it would be a waste of my time. But they have a few other classes I'm thinking of taking up, if for nothing else, to bone up on a few things. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Hey All...thanks for the info & the laughs! I never beat myself up about things other people have better ideas of, or more info about-I just LEARN! Much appreciated!

I personally had the makeup artist for the Lord Of The Rings create the prosthesis you see in the pix!!! Good job, huh? Never have to worry about shoes anymore!!!

Hey...those are duck feet! Can't you see the webbed toes? Ha! That was my original thought when I considered dropping the water lines...the residual heat would keep them from freezing. Thought I'd post the question, just for other opinions. And the insulation you see there, is directly over the garage-so it is insulated. I had considered removing the vent, because I didn't think it would be doing anything either-not replacing it at all. But after our conversations, I think I'll get something to extend down there now. This will extend the residual heat source, and I won't have to be concerned about the water lines down there. Thanks Kurt!

Captain, Kurt & Rob...thanks for the replies. I should have been more detailed, though. 1) The vent isn't connected to the dryer-no lint problem. It's connected to the heating vent, right off the side, as you can see in the pix. 2) Rob, you're correct-my bathroom is partly over the garage, hence the insulation. Which raises another question I'll ask at the end. Around here, at least in my experience, this kind of venting is considered dryer venting. I can see where you're going, that this may be used to provide heat, so I may have to expand my vocabulary for this material. 3) Kurt, yes...this is original from the builder (whose name I won't give at this time-not sure if I can). There were alot of corners cut in this house when it was built in '87. I find more jury-rigging when I go to make some changes. If you think it's wise, I'll just go get some more "flexible" piping, and replace this, as I cut into it when I opened up the floor. On to my other question: Seeing some of the responses has made me think I should insulate the water lines in the floor, as part of the bathroom is over the garage. I was originally thinking the insulation in the floor would be sufficient, but now I'm re-considering. ??? Download Attachment: Open Ended Vent 3.JPG 1028.36 KB Download Attachment: Open Ended Vent 4.JPG 1028.03 KB

Found this website, after I googled this. I'm not sure I understand "all" of this, but it gives good info! www.aquarestoration.com/merulia.asp

I've never seen that before either, Mike. I'm not sure if Kurt or other inspectors around here have either, but I'd be interested to know if they did. Thanks for the new info!!

Thanks Kurt...outside of Brians astute "observations", it's difficult to read voice inflections here online!! And being somewhat new to this, even though I've been coming to this site for almost a year now, I do alot more reading and storing of information from all of you. How does that saying go? "Better to remain silent, then to remove your foot and remove all doubt". Or something like that. But once in a while, I'll get on my soapbox...about something I have "some knowledge" of. My way of getting my foot in the door. And as of this, I'll shut my mouth concerning this. We all know the pitfalls anyway. The rest is just filibuster. Hey-we have something more in common...Corey Friedman. He was the instructor for the class I took last year. Great Guy! I don't get to chat with him too often, though.

Mike...been at the same company more than 20 yrs., and long before that, they were telling people of the problems with these connectors. The problem isn't in getting the word out. The problem is getting people to do something about them. We don't get them too often, but the big explosions that happen around here due to faulty flex's get alot of press. Why people don't do something about them, or at least to have them inspected, is beyond me. Usually after some is sensationalized, there is a brief period where it's really busy. The area I cover has had many people change them, but I will still get into a house & see connectors to every appliance, all brass, and heavily corroded. On the other hand, the company I work for is pretty slow. Not so much a wait and see attitude, but let's see what other gas companies around the country are doing, and some of the pitfalls involved. Then they "tweak". Kurt...like I said-I can see both sides of the issue. And admittedly, I'm somewhat biased in my opinion, having worked for the same company more than 20 yrs. It's a bit of a murky issue, and I'm just trying to get it a bit cleared for "small business", rather than "big business". I meant no offense. I just know what happened as a result of certain practices, but again, this is a big company, and people see deep pockets.

I can see both sides of the argument. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. The gas company I work for has taken the position of making it safe NOW. They've talked with their lawyers, & have come up with this conclusion: since we've been trained to spot potential hazards, if we do nothing (including valving off appliances, or even the gas meter if needed-temperature doesn't matter), then we're liable. If you've done H.I.'s in the NW burbs and see a caution tag Kurt, that's where all this came from. A couple examples: gas water heaters come with 2 doors. the combustion chamber door, and the outer door. If even one of them is missing now, we've been told we need to valve it off and issue a tag. This has been around for about 11 years. It seems a lady was doing laundry, and both doors weren't in place. The AWH kicked on, the flame caught the clothes on fire (because she left them on the floor in front of the AWH), and a little girl died as a result. The gas company was sued, and found to be liable, since we were out there shortly before that incident, & didn't warn the homeowner. The other example are unprotected brass connectors. In past years we just issued a tag, although if they were extremely corroded, we would take a few extra safety steps. Just this past summer, we've been told to valve off the appliance & disconnect/cap the gas line, no matter the condition of the connector. Flex connectors, for gas company purposes, need to be stainless steel, or have an expoxy coating on it if it's brass. And if on examination, it seems to be twisted too much, then it should be "recommended" for replacement. This change in policy came as a direct result of soldered flex connectors. The next time you hear of a gas explosion caused by soldered flex's, turn to channel 2 news. A certain "reporter" has had their name made by reporting on connectors that have snapped at the soldering, and put that home in a gas explosive environment. I speak only myself now, not for the company, not for anyone here. I have to sleep at night. I would rather take the hardline of safety, than have someone be hurt where I was at before. Like I said...damned if you do, damned if you don't. But at least I can sleep with a good conscience. Just one man's opinion.

Thanks for all the input gents!

Danny...manufacturers create gas fireplaces so the flames are yellow. This gives the flames the desired asthetic effect that people want in a fireplace. But when gas burns yellow, there's always CO present. And in a gas fireplace, the logs will always have soot on them (unless they never use it). Something to keep in mind: if the current owner uses it alot (and it sounds like they do, or they haven't had someone out to service it in quite some time-if ever), the soot lining the inside of the chimney can flash. I would write it up as needing service. But Mike is right...the logs do need to be positioned properly. Hope that helps.

Yeah, I had read that this weekend also Kurt! I had this mental image of some screwballs with a beer in their hand, trying to scare others of the opposite gender. Thats' what my buddy & I had visions of, though he doesn't have "too many" nut-balls for friends (myself included, hopefully!!). What I find interesting in that collapse story, is the family of one of those screwballs is trying to sue the city. The blame game keeps on rolling! Thanks!

We already have a joist to replace, and it's not one of the ones notched out. Replacing these other 5 isn't practical though. Sometime in the future, the basement is going to be refinished, and the idea of support bearings is also impractical, though I agree, the best option. I'll run over all the options again with him, and let him decide. I appreciate all the info! Thanks!

Hello everyone. A friend of mine has this great St. Patrick's Day party every year, and invites alot of people-kind of an open house invite. The problem is, he and his wife moved into a house last year that needs work. I'm going to be helping him get this work done before St. Patty's (he has fears of people falling through the floor), because he has 5 joists that have been notched at least half way up, to accommodate the gas fuel run, which I'll be re-routing for him next weekend. Question: what is the best way to repair these joists, without having to replace them all? I imagine some type of metal brace could do the trick, but I'm uncertain of what type to get. I appreciate the future input. Download Attachment: Crilly 3.jpg 980.02 KB

That furnace hasn't been serviced for quite some time. And around here, many utility rooms have the water heater, furnace, washer & dryer all in the same room. Not only is lint build up a big problem, but as Mike said, you need to have the make-up air. You said the door was louvred, so that would cover the make up air. But that doesn't cover the lint build up problem. And seeing that this hasn't been serviced in a while, that chamber probably can't get rid of the flu products created, because the chamber is blocked , which means not enough oxygen to keep the flame alive. It may fire initially & go out quickly, or not at all. And with the gas still emitting from that burner, there's a possibility of roll out-the gas escaping that chamber, and igniting off the other burners. That unit needs to be shut down immediately, and an HVAC contractor called for service. By the way-if the furnace looks like this, you can pretty well make the assumption that ac has never been serviced either.

I know we aren't supposed to have the flexible gas lines enter the HVAC cabinets to connect to the regulator but what about the newer coated(yellow) flexible gas lines that are being used to replace the old black ridgid pipe? ------------------------------------------------ Concerning the newer flex's, are you talking about CSST? Around here, I've never seen CSST used that way, though I wouldn't doubt its existence in this manner. What I have seen, is flexible piping going through the furnace housing, walls, floors...all of which are not acceptable. All flexible piping needs to be secured from excessive vibration, and I would add CSST to that list. I've come across many homes where the piping wasn't secured, and people have dropped objects on them, stepped on them, or just accidentally "brushed" a flex right at an acute bend, & all have created stress fractures, creating a gas leak. After more than 20 yrs. working at the gas company, I thank the Good Lord I never had to respond to an explosion like some people I know...but I easily could have!! Another concern as it passes through from the pipe into the furnace, is the condition of the pipe around the sharp edges of the metal housing. The flex isn't strong enough to withstand movement up against these edges. Also, if the flex is epoxy coated, most likely it'll mean a brass connector. Once the brass is exposed, then oxidation can occur. I've attached a few pictures for an example of the above concerns. In my humble opinion, flex connectors should only be used for ranges and dryers (the exception is for Lennox Pulse furnaces, which "requires" a flex installed so it won't shake the gas piping in the entire house when the furnace pulses, but the flex still needs to be installed in a position that will keep it safe). Hard piping should be utilized, and the only reason (again my humble opinion) I can see why plumbers/contractors use flex's, is it's easier to install than hard piping. Some areas have codes against flex's used in this manner, some don't. Either way, it's not the best use of this product when installed this way. To go a bit further with CSST-I've only seen CSST used through walls, and there needs to be a strike plate as it passes through studs/joists so it can be protected from nails puncturing it. Of course, you'll never see this once the dry wall is up, so you won't be able to make an assessment. But I would still put it in the report, to make sure the client knows. Ok...I'm off my soap-box concerning this subject! Download Attachment: Unsecured Flex 1a.JPG 1005.09 KB Download Attachment: 1b Unsecured-Brass Flex Connectors.JPG 1027.81 KB Download Attachment: IMGP0961.JPG 1021.82 KB Download Attachment: IMGP1059.JPG 1011.3 KB

I've been instructed by a 20 year electrician, who is also in the Home Inspection Business, that he never takes the cover off of a Federal Pacific. He's said the breakers have a nasty habit of falling out. I've followed suit, and have pointed this out in the report. As others have said, I would be concerned about what's on that might be accidentally shut down-clocks, computers, answering machines, etc.

Hey Kurt...I was talking to my brother-in-law who is a plumber, and he was wondering if Cook, Dupage, or the surrounding counties even allowed plastic instead of copper. He never heard of Pex before I mentioned it to him. He would love to work with it instead of copper! Any thoughts?

____________________________________________ Does anyone else think that hiring a professional appliance repair man to clean the oven is possibly over the top? The only danger I've experienced when using the Clean cycle on my oven is when I didn't turn on the exhaust fan. Is it really dangerous to clean your oven? ________________________________________________ Kurt...sorry, guess I wasn't clear enough. Have to remember to be a bit more detailed here. I was thinking of a range that has standing pilots to it, not electronic ignition. Since an oven pilot burns right up against the burner, the carbon it produces can clog the portholes, and cause a delayed ignition. Most people don't know how to clean the pilot/burner area properly, and the best advice I've given people is to have an appliance repairman inspect/clean it for them. You're right when you say it might be overkill...but after seeing so many people try things on their own, and making a bad situation worse, I found it best in this case to err on the side of safety.