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Hi Again, Well, it looks like the UK isn't the only place where folks were exploring the idea of mandatory seller's inspections. Our neighbors to the north apparently explored it as well when the Canadian Mortgage Housing Corporation did a little bit of research into the idea. Check this out. There are some interesting findings there. What do you think - would mandatory seller's inspections be a boon or a bane for the profession here? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi All, Over the past few months I've been noticing a general cooling off of the real estate market in my area. Nothing overwhelming, just what looks like a gradual lessening of activity. The Seattle paper has had a number of articles of late about it as well. It occurred to me that with this happening the inspection profession would probably see some companies working on margin go under, so I googled around to see what the chatter is on the web about it and found this. I almost couldn't believe it when I didn't see Seattle listed here. Guess we missed that bullet. Check it out and see where you are. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi Rich, I could post them here, but that would deprive you folks of the chance to do a little digging and find out more about this initiative. So, you can find everything you want to know about this program by going to the CAHPI site at http://www.cahpi.ca and then clicking on 'Inspector Codes', once you are inside the site, and then choosing both 'Occupational Standards' and 'National Accreditation and Certification Model' and then print them out. Enjoy ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

According to an article in the December 19th Business Buzz section of the London Free Press, Bill Mullen, owner of Bluewater Home Inspection in Sarnia, Ontario has been named to head a national program which is set to begin certifying home inspectors in Canada in 2006. The program is a joint project involving Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation, Human Resource and Skills Development Canada, the Canadian Federal Ministry of Housing, and the Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) and is the culmination of 8 years of effort aimed at educating, assessing and certifying about 5,000 Canadian inspectors under the umbrella of CAHPI. So far, preparations have cost more than $2,000,000 (CN). Mullen will oversee the implementation phase of the program and will direct the certification process of individual practitioners and the accreditation of educational institutions involved in training. The target is to have all practicing inspectors in Canada certified by the end of 2007. Mullen has been an inspector for 13 years and has held positions on the boards of both the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors (OAHI) and its counterpart CAHPI. For more information about this program, including a breakdown of the core skills of home inspectors and details of the actual certification process, visit the CAHPI website. Find more discussions about this and other inspection-related topics on TIJ's Other Forums

Jeez, There goes my lunch. You guys could at least use the smileys to let the poor fellow know that you're only playin' OT - OF!!! M.

Hi, That was easy. I'd been meaning to create a forum for pest-related issues anyway. I don't use a blacklight. What's the point. If I were to use a blacklight, it would indicate urine regardless of when it occurred and even when all infestations had been eradicated. Since I'd rather face death than a live rodent (Irrational phobia, I know), I'd rather not have that visual. It's more productive to look for droppings, fresh urine spots, trails, signs of nesting, nests, borrowing and the like. Once you've done enough of 'em, you gain a feel for whether it's a new or an old infestation and whether there are live rodents present (The tiny little urine puddles help too!). Generally, I don't spend a lot of time on rodents. I spot the telltales, tell 'em that I'm not going to spend hours more tracking down every entry point to determine how they are getting in and whether they are active or not, and tell 'em to get an exterminator in to find and identify points of entry, block them and then eradicate any live rodents present. Not to start thread drift, but I think it is wise to warn folks not to go into crawlspaces and attics unless they are wearing a respirator. I almost always (unless I forget) caution every client not to go into attics and crawlspaces here unless he/she is wearing a respirator with nothing less than a P100 filter. I've heard that WSDA estimates that 1 out of every 10 "rats" here is a deer mouse and 1 out of every 10 of those tested will carry the hanta virus, which can be spread to humans when they breath dust contaminated with their droppings. Recently there was another fellow here that died here from hanta virus, after cleaning out a shed or garage, and I recently met a realtor whose son came so close to death when he caught it that they gave him last rights. She'd signed do not resuscitate papers because the doctors had said that if he didn't turn the corner he'd at a minimum be brain dead. Luckily, on the very night the doctors told her that he probably wouldn't live until morning, it passed and he lived without any lasting effects. It's scary stuff. Unless your own immune system can fight it off, there's absolutely nothing they can do for you. I think I probably freak out the 'zoids when I warn folks about hanta virus but none of them have ever called me to bitch about it (Not that it would get them any sympathy). It's the kind of warning about safety that we're in a unique position to know about and appreciate and clients won't learn about it almost anywhere else. That's more than you asked for but maybe you can use it. Check with your local department of agriculture to see if it's shown up in your area yet. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi Again, This is a November 9th article picked up from an Australian construction industry site, AzoBuild.com that sort of provides an understanding of where the certifying authorities in U.K. are at. OT - OF!!! M. November 9, 2005 Home Inspectors Will Be Rigorously Trained Professionals The Government's recent announcement on Home Information Packs has received a mixed response in the press. Among concerns about the Packs, which all those selling their homes will be required to provide from 2007, was the question of whether the Home Inspectors compiling the required Home Condition Reports would be sufficiently qualified. But according to Chris Broadbent, Director of the Assessment Centre at BRE, 'Home Inspectors will be skilled professionals who have gone through a rigorous programme of training and assessment. Their training will be quality controlled by two levels of verification and they will sit a final exam before being awarded the Diploma in Home Inspection. They will then prepare and deliver Home Condition Reports under a third party certification scheme.' BRE is currently training and assessing an increasing number of Home Inspectors, both experienced practitioners and new entrants, to be ready for the introduction of Home Information Packs. 'As a leading Assessment Centre for the delivery of the Diploma in Home Inspection,' says Chris Broadbent,' BRE is committed to the highest standards of training and assessment for its candidates. We are confident that candidates successfully completing this programme, will have all the necessary expertise to deliver high quality Home Condition Reports that sellers, buyers and lenders can rely on.' To become licensed, a Home Inspector must achieve a Level 4 Vocational Qualification through an assessment of competence by practical demonstration of the skills required, and a comprehensive examination. This applies to both experienced surveyors and to new entrants to the profession. The vocational qualification is being delivered through approved Assessment Centres, of which BRE is one, working to a well established national system of standards setting and quality audit. Once licensed, the Home Inspector will operate under a third party certification scheme, and will maintain clearly defined standards of conduct, undertake continuing professional development and have suitable insurance in force. 'The Home Condition Report will be prepared under strict conditions of engagement to produce a report that all involved parties can have confidence in,' says Broadbent, 'and which will allow a buyer to make an offer on a house in the full knowledge of its condition.'

Hi Kurt, Well, the article doesn't give any background so I probably should have put it in context. The RICS (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors) guy, Brewer, and other Chartered Surveyors have ruled the roost for hundreds of years in Britain when it comes to having someone examine a home you are going to buy and telling you what shape it's in. I think the best description of one of these guys is sort of an Engineer Lite, throw in a Code Inspector, some Builder and a dash or two of Appraiser and shake well. They don't just inspect new homes, they can do the valuation comps and calculations as well and make structural calls and specify/supervise work that we'd normally refer to an engineer. Well, whoever dreamed up this law also dreamed up the need for a completely "new" (at least for the UK) professional - that of home inspector - and they've estimated that to keep pace with the amount of sales without stalling the market they'll need at least 12,500 inspectors and have put out a call urging folks to get into the profession. They've been recruiting in schools and colleges, looking at outgoing military and are even urging RICS guys with construction related backgrounds (many RICS guys do other types of surveys unrelated to home sales or construction) to get into the field. However, instead of allowing someone to one day just hang out a shingle and call him/herself a home inspector, they've made it a law that everyone who becomes a home inspector must have a certain amount of education and prove he/she is capable of doing the job before they'll certify them as qualified and allow them to open up shop. They've put a vetting system in place that examines the background and credentials of anyone who wants to get into the business - even the RICS guys - which ticked them off to no end because they feel that they should be grandfathered. They've put in place certain minimum education requirements and have set up standards of practice for the home inspection profession that specify what will be inspected and what won't (They've even come up with a mandatory report form that is very similar to those used by most inspectors here.) and what must be reported - something that the RICS guys never had to be encumbered with - and they've put in place college curriculums that are putting these folks in school 12 hours a day, 5 - 6 days a week for 3 years to train them and ensure they are up to speed. The RICS guys are also not happy about the fact that they are given a chance to challenge an exam to qualify and if they fail it they must themselves attend the training. I read an article a few months back where they interviewed a lady who'd been through the training. She's beem a chartered surveyor for many years and is now a senior RICS officer. She found the training very thorough and extremely challenging and admitted after she'd been through it that she'd learned a lot. So, what's up with the article? The RICS guys are spouting off because they're afraid of losing business and stature to a bunch of new guys that someone just dreamed up one day and they're miffed (and more than a little insulted) that anyone would question their qualifications to do home inspections or force them to prove that they have the requisite knowledge of homes before they can be certified and authorized to do it. So, they've resorted to fear mongering. They've joined with many in the real estate and lending communities that are bemoaning the "cowboy" home inspectors and predicting that they'll be incompetent, will produce reports that are pap or, since they're being hired and paid by sellers, will whitewash homes so that they'll sell. Never mind that doing so will be punishable by loss of business license, arrest and possible imprisonment - it's good theater to make people believe that. Like I said, there are some interesting parallels there. There's also IMO an organizational model there that we here in this country should look at. You see, no matter how loud someone squawks about the new home inspection profession over there, if it survives it will have begun on solider footing than our's did over here. In the UK they are recruiting young people who aren't yet into the job market, as well as seasoned professionals interested in the field. Instead of the profession being top-heavy with folks backing into the business from another profession somewhat late in life, these young folks will be the profession and will mold it with the next 40+ years in mind, unlike here where most are only looking forward maybe 20 to 25 years and couldn't care less about the direction the profession is going or the fact that in some ways it's practically been co-opted by special interests. It's going to be very interesting to watch how this thing unfolds over there. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! M.

Fears are growing that the introduction of Home Sellers Packs will create a “cowboyâ€

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has announced that in early 2005 Falcon HC Holding Corp., of Stamford, Conn., withdrew from participation in the recall program to replace Ultravent-brand plastic vent pipes used to vent home heating systems. Because of Falcon's withdrawal, consumers with Ultravent pipes now have to pay the portion the firm had agreed to pay - about 40 percent of the total replacement cost, which amounts to between $230 and $250 per system. All the other firms participating in the recall program continue to honor their obligations under the program. Falcon's withdrawal does not affect consumers with Plexvent-brand vent pipe. Thus, consumers with Plexvent-brand plastic vent pipes continue to get a cost-free remedy when they replace their vent pipes. The original recall program was announced on February 24, 1998 with the participation of virtually the entire furnace and boiler industry together with the two manufacturers of high-temperature plastic vent (HTPV) pipes. Its purpose was to replace the estimated 250,000 HTPV pipe systems attached to gas or propane furnaces or boilers in consumers' homes. The HTPV pipes could crack or separate at the joints and leak deadly carbon monoxide (CO). About 93,000 HTPV pipes have been replaced as of October 1, 2005. When the recall program began in February 1998, Hart and Cooley Inc., the manufacturer of Ultravent pipes, agreed to participate in the recall indefinitely. In December 1999, Hart and Cooley Inc. was purchased by EQ Corp., of Norwalk, Conn., a subsidiary of Equilease Corp., and renamed Falcon HC Holding Corp. The firm currently known as Hart and Cooley Inc., now owned by Tomkins PLC, is not the subject of this press release. Despite having ample assets to continue funding Falcon HC Holding Corp.'s share of the recall, EQ Corp. has informed the Commission that it is not legally responsible and, therefore, will not do so. Since the recalled HTPV pipes can leak CO, consumers are urged to replace them immediately. CO is a colorless, odorless gas. Initial symptoms of CO poisoning are similar to the flu, and may include dizziness, fatigue, headache, nausea and irregular breathing. High-level exposure can lead to death. To determine whether they have HTPV pipe systems subject to the recall, consumers should check the vent pipes attached to their natural gas or propane furnaces or boilers. Vent pipes subject to this recall program can be identified as follows: the vent pipes are plastic; the Plexvent vent pipes are black and the Ultravent vent pipes are gray; and they have the names "Plexvent," "Plexvent II" or "Ultravent" stamped on the vent pipe or printed on stickers placed on pieces used to connect the vent pipes together. Consumers should also check the location of these vent pipes. For furnaces, only HTPV systems that have vent pipes going through the sidewalls of structures (horizontal systems)are subject to this program. For boilers, all HTPV systems are subject to this program. Other plastic vent pipes, such as white PVC or CPVC, are not involved in this program. After checking the vent pipes, consumers should call the special toll-free number (800) 758-3688, available between 8 a.m. and 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, to verify that their HTPV pipe systems are subject to this recall program. Consumers with eligible systems will receive new, professionally installed venting systems free of charge or at a reduced charge, depending on the manufacturer of their HTPV pipes. In addition, furnace owners with HTPV pipes may choose to replace their existing mid-efficiency furnace with a new, high-efficiency furnace manufactured by the same company. Furnace owners with Plexvent pipes will receive a $400 rebate when the work is completed, and furnace owners with Ultravent pipes will receive a $250 rebate when the work is completed. Additionally, CPSC recommends that every home should have at least one CO detector. Consumers can obtain more recall information at CPSC's Web site at www.cpsc.gov. CPSC Consumer Hotline: (800) 638-2772 CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908

Hi, He can clean the brickwork with a mild muriatic acid solution about 1pt muriatic acid to 20 parts water. Sponge it on, allow it to work and then rinse it down with TSP. Finally rinse with clear water, allow it to dry and a few days later apply some clear acrylic concrete/masonry sealant. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! M.

Hi, Yes, I did click on them and about 9 out of 10 are out of focus. Looked at 'em with both pairs of glasses and even tried to improve resolution with PhotoEditor. If I could have improved them I was going to edit your article and substitute the improved photos for those. No luck - too out of focus. Please don't take this the wrong way, but do you wear glasses and did you remove them to focus your camera? My Dad is a little bit vain and doesn't wear his glasses unless he has to read something. Even then, he tries to do it without anyone noticing that he's put them on. He took a bunch of pictures one time that he was real proud of but every one of them was out of focus and he didn't realize it until I pointed it out to him. OT - OF!!! M.

Hi, First, a warning. If this thread disintegrates into a Whoever vs. NACHI thread with personal attacks I'll delete everything past the announcement. Play nice. It's the same with the rest of the board. The sniping at each other is going to stop or I'm going to begin exercising the delete key. That said, you folks in NJ could have saved yourselves about 7 years of heartburn and enmity if you'd only ditched the 'grandfathering' and mentoring portions of your law and had substituted a peer review process that required every single inspector in the state to get a 'go' or face being shut down. That, along with education and a basic written test would provide the public the consumer protection they unknowingly 'think' they have when they pick up a phone to call an inspector in any state. It's real simple - go to school, take a written test to ensure you've absorbed enough of what you learned to be functional and then undergo a peer review that everyone in the profession must complete. We've all gone through a peer review process - we do it when we go down to get a driver's license. We must study, take a written test and then undergo a driver's test. The process is simple. You have defined parameters of performance for every task and the evaluator just checks off a yes, no, or N/A for every task on the list that's encountered in the process. Get enough 'go's' and you receive a go. Not get enough and it's back to school for more training before you try again. It's been done for decades for a ton of professions. Off the top of my head, pilots, electricians, plumbers, cops, soldiers, hair dressers and barbers come to mind, but I know there are dozens of others in professions that far outnumber home inspectors, so I know that the excuse, "It's too complicated and the home inspection business it to fragmented to do it," won't fly. Then, it wouldn't have mattered if the inspector had been in the process 1 week or 30 years, everyone would have had to have gotten a 'go" on the peer review in order to have been issued a license. It was one of the things that the original group of folks who first attempted to organize the profession back in the 70's wanted incorporated into the profession. The founders even tried to get college courses designed for the profession that would confer a degree. They even had peer review for a while. Then folks got lazy and someone less interested in peer review took the helm and allowed interest to flag. It wasn't long before it was dead. If it had been law and they'd been required to do it, it would still be alive today and would have spread across the country. Too bad so many of those folk took the easy route, dropped peer review and then began to covet real estate referrals as the holy grail. Had they stuck to their guns, we in the profession would be better off today. It's not too late though. Every home inspector licensing/certification/registration law on the books could still be fixed if peer review were incorporated into the process now. Sure, logic dictates that people are still going to choose a more experienced inspector over a rookie, so having done an internship with an established inspection company would be seen by most consumers as a plus when evaluating inspectors who haven't been in the business long, but that could have been strictly voluntary on the part of the newly licensed inspector. If he/she didn't want to do an internship, so be it, then it's slog for several years trying to get enough referrals to survive, in order to get the experience that customers are looking for. Sometimes I think that you folks in New Jersey thrive on your in-fighting. It's a shame, because your law was otherwise pretty solid. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi, Is it just me or were most of those pictures too out of focus to make out very much of the detail? OT - OF!!! M.

Hi, Yeah, the construction industry has problems - serious problems - but we're home inspectors and not generally terribly well-liked or thought of anywhere on the planet except amongst ourselves. In all of the US and Canada there might be 30,000 of us. Now, lets put it in perspective. I'm in Washington State and the largest demograph of workers in this state is construction with more than 300,000 workers, and we aren't even that populated a state. Multiply that times 50 and increase it based on population and HI's are less significant than a gnat to an elephant and have absolutely no political clout. There's little we can do to have an impact other than keep writing up improper installations and hope that some of what we tell folks sinks in. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi Guys, Saw a short evening magazine type program the other night that had this on. Took a while to find it. Someone sure has a whole lot of time on his/her hands. I can't imagine that he's running this thing on a continuous loop or the neighbors would be complaining about the noise and ready to throttle him/her. I envisioned a laid-off computer programmer sitting around the house with nothing to do and a severence check that had been eating a hole in his pocket that he blew on this. It had to have taken weeks to program all of that, string those lights and then hook them all up to whatever is controlling that - not to mention what it must have cost. Maybe he's the same guy that programmed the water/light show at the Bellachio in Vegas! ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Originally posted by rlskfoster on another thread 12/10/2005 and moved here. Ed. I just want to point out that most builders that go into "disadvantaged" nieghborhoods are'nt doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. There is significant incentives to try to reclaim blighted neighborhoods. Most are city, state and federal programs to help those that can't(or in more cases than we like to admit-won't) help themsevlves to a better life. In other words your tax dollars at work. I may sound like I'm complaining,but, I'm really glad to see it. I've spent the last 17 years working in a "disadvantaged" area of Fort Worth, Texas called "Stop Six" and "Poly". About ten years ago the city started partnering with businesses to relocate to this area. It has been a great success and in the last five years the new houses started to follow filling vacant lots and actually starting whole new developments. Our run totals (I'm a fireman) are trending down as quality of life improves in this area. BUT, the houses still are'nt worth as much as in my own personal neighborhood. And yes the Stop Six neighborhood is predominately black and hispanic. I'm white. Buster

Originally posted on another thread by Kurt on 12/10/2005 and moved here.[/b][/size=1] I'm glad I can fast forward to where I really wanted to go w/this...... Pardon my calling things as I see them, but that approach is part of the root of racist attitudes in this country. Much of Chicago is being rebuilt because builders are going into hard core gangland & building nice homes & sticking their necks out; how wonderful of appraisers to come in and tell all these fine folks that their house isn't worth much because, ahem, the neighbors are black. If that's where appraisals take us, screw appraisals & appraisers. They're more than worthless; they're evil. Kurt

Originally posted on another thread by Brian G. on 12/10/2005 and moved here. Originally posted by kurt I guess I'm a little curious why appraisers think they're above the transaction(?). They're not above it, but like HI's they're supposed to be outside of it (i.e., not facilitating for referrals). I mean, it is a free market economy, & if a buyer is willing to pay a certain fee, why isn't the property worth what the buyer's are willing to pay? Because only an unsophistocated buyer would be willing to give much more than anyone else is paying for similar properties in the area. Many buyers are unsophistocated. Just because some eager beaver is willing to pay $15,000 too much on a starter house doesn't make it real. I get the idea that there are "limits", but they're pretty subjective. When I was building homes, I can recall more than a couple times when we built a good house, the buyer was fine w/the price, the bank was ready to go, and then we'd get some dimbulb appraiser who would tell us "no, the house isn't worth that". When appraisal is done with no regard for the deal it isn't all that subjective. One finds the most similar properties available from recent sales history and runs the numbers (hard data). Some of it is subjective, mostly in the "adjustments" for basic differences in the subject property and the comparable properties (subject has a nice deck, Comp 1 doesn't, you add "X" amount to the value of the subject, etc.). If you went into a crummy neighborhood and built a house that would be worth $150,000 in one of the local suburbs it isn't going to be worth the same in the crummy neighborhood. It doesn't matter how well built it is if it's out of line with the larger economics (sad to say). The builder and the banker have a profit motive, of course they're fine with it. IOW, appraisals are a pile of subjectivity. Not so much as you think, but it's certainly true that anyone who understands the process can manipulate the numbers significantly. Not honestly you understand, but in much the same vien as any smart HI can soft-soap the hell out of a property if he wants to. Inspections, OTOH, are not; they are (or should be) based on science, fact, safety, or other similarly measurable condition. Should be, yes, and are if done honestly and professionally. Appraisal isn't much different. If appraisers are in a stranglehold by mortgage brokers, so what? The long-term result is that most appraisals aren't worth the paper they're written on, IMHO. The bank / mortgage people have largely succeeded in subverting that part of the process into a rubber stamp party, by closing ranks to starve-out anyone who doesn't play ball. Now they want to package the appraisal, the home inspection, the termite inspection, etc., for the "convienience" of the buyer. What kind of HI do you think they'll want? One who digs for the facts and tells it like it is, or one who keeps it light and doesn't rock the boat? If anyone thinks it's the former, they need a reality check. They'll be just as effective at shutting out honest HI's. People will get screwed over and we'll be among them. Brian G. I Call Appraisal My "Lost Year"

Originally posted on another thread by Kurt on 12/09/2005 and moved here. I guess I'm a little curious why appraisers think they're above the transaction(?). I mean, it is a free market economy, & if a buyer is willing to pay a certain fee, why isn't the property worth what the buyer's are willing to pay? I get the idea that there are "limits", but they're pretty subjective. When I was building homes, I can recall more than a couple times when we built a good house, the buyer was fine w/the price, the bank was ready to go, and then we'd get some dimbulb appraiser who would tell us "no, the house isn't worth that". IOW, appraisals are a pile of subjectivity. Inspections, OTOH, are not; they are (or should be) based on science, fact, safety, or other similarly measurable condition. If appraisers are in a stranglehold by mortgage brokers, so what?

Originally posted on another thread by Brian G. 12/10/2005 and moved here. Originally posted by paul burrell Excuse me if I sound a little hostile towards mortgage brokers but it is only because I am. As a past certified real estate appraiser (inactive) I know how they are. Not all of them but far to many. Yep, been there and done that too Paul. The subject of preventing bankers and mortgage brokers from making their clients accept package deals (the appraiser, home inspector, etc. they want you to use) has come up a time or two, and many HI's don't understand what a God-awful choke hold those people have on most of the appraisal community. They make realtors look like pikers when it comes to sticking together to lock out "uncooperative" outsiders. Brian G. Also "Inactive" in That Field

Originally posted by Paul Burrell 12/10/2005 and moved here. Excuse me if I sound a little hostile towards mortgage brokers but it is only because I am. As a past certified real estate appraiser (inactive) I know how they are. Not all of them but far to many. I have money owed to me by brokers that I will never get from the scum excuse me I meant broker. OK I feel better now, Paul Burrell

How about those appraisers? The clients have their heart set on a home, the inspection shows that the home is in pretty good shape. Everyone - including the buyers feel that it's a fair price and then the appraiser comes in and figuratively pulls the rug out from under the buyers, because the home isn't, in the appraiser's opinion, worth the price. Then there's the realtors who I've heard say, when the client nervously asks what's going to happen if the house doesn't appraise high enough, "Don't worry about it. This mortgage broker will make sure that it does." What's up with that? OT - OF!!! Ed.

Rheem Answers Questions on 13 Seer Rheem Manufacturing Company’s Air Conditioning Division has published a series of 13 SEER educational pamphlets designed to help Rheem business partners and their customers better understand and capitalize on the transition to the new minimum efficiency standard taking effect on January 23, 2006. The five-pamphlet series, “Understanding 13-SEER,â€

Hi, Around here (Seattle) a new 200 amp panel would cost between $1500 and $2000 depending on the company used. We're supposed to be one of the most expensive places in the country to live so it might be substantially less down there, but I don't know that for certain. Don Larsen or Paul should know. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike