Daniel Friedman Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Originally posted by Les Chad, don't encourage him - we may actually LEARN something! geez fellas You should be out inspecting, no? I welcome questions and critique regarding any of my web material - the process makes the data more accurate. This FPE thing is an old issue that won't go away, mostly because 1. there are lots of these installed 2. there is at least one deep pockets company in the responsibility chain who funds an attorney to keep pressing back on the FPE issue. Respectfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Friedman Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Originally posted by Brandon Chew... "FPE panels and breakers" and Stab-Lok are the same thing,... I've posted an FPE Stab-Lok identification guide at: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpeid.htm But here are a couple of points: FPE made a wide range of electrical products over many years including - fuse panels for which we have no similar set of hazard concerns - commercial equipment, some of which, according to the SEC filing, might have been populated with mis-labeled and un-approved breakers - possibly other equipment that we don't know about. As a writer on the topic I've been cautioned that it is very important to be very accurate - making a mistake in what we call something can result in a lot of wasted time and maybe even money, so I recommend that we never expose an inspector to the charge of "tarring with too broad a brush" these products. I recommend that inspectors: * Identify for certain thatthe equipment as a FPE-Stab-lok panel or a Federal Pacific Electric Stab-Lok panel, specifically by visual inspection (it's easy) and * Properly name and cite the panel in the report (you can cite www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm or the .pdf technical report Most but not all of these panels are labelled "Stab-Lok" which referred to the bus and breaker connection design, but some of the early models may omit "Stab Lok" on the panel labels. It's very easy to recognize these models and adds no time to what the inspector is already doing by opening the panel to inspect its interior: there were two buses, ones with an "E" shaped hole and one with an "F" shaped hole to receive the breaker connectors. We can see these if we can see the bus, so even if a panel is not clearly labelled as "Stab Lok" the normal inspection process of opening the panel to inspect its interior should suffice. Respectfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Kienitz Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Dan, Thanks so much for your input and research. I've used your documentation for years to help educate my clients. I also appreciate the ability to link to your website for information from mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Originally posted by Daniel Friedman ...............so even if a panel is not clearly labelled as "Stab Lok" the normal inspection process of opening the panel to inspect its interior should suffice. Respectfully You mean the "normal process" where one pulls the panel cover off, and the breakers fall out? [8] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I've removed tons of FPE covers and never had a problem with the breakers falling out, or even seeming loose . . . until a couple of weeks ago. There was a sub-panel in a garage. I removed the top screw, then started whirring out the bottom screw, when I realized the breakers were moving toward me along with the deadfront. It's one of those moments when you think, "F**k, you should have known better, and now you're never gonna be able to get the breakers back into place." But I retightened the lower screw and s-l-o-w-l-y reinserted the top screw and everything was fine. Thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I was (kind of) joking. They don't all fall out. I've had a lot of them that just tumbled when I pulled the cover, though. I seem to remember that it's the one's w/those peg "alignment" things that stick through the deadfront, and the bus seems to be mounted on springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 If they're loose, but not detached, is resecuring them as simple as pressing on the bus side, like with a Square D breaker? Do Stab-Lok breakers have the hinge-y thing on the side opposite the bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 "Secure" and "Stab-Lok" are oxymoronic. They sort of jam into this weird attachment assembly; the attachment is anything but secure. I didn't really think much about StabLok components, even after reading the Friedman/Hansen documents; it was all abstract. Then, one day I opened up one, the breakers fell out, and I really looked @ how they "attach" to the bus. I'm no engineer, but I don't think a chimp would design something that stupid. They're really, really crappy. And, the breakers don't trip like they should. They're crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse A Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I am the author of the report "Hazardous FPE Circuit Breakers and Panels" which provides historical and test data and references for information that the Kentucky Board says does not exist. A copy of the latest revision of that report (May 25, 2007, PDF format) can be downloaded from Dan Friedman's site at the following URL: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/FPECircui ... 070525.PDF Note that the report has been updated to include information on the finding of fraud by FPE in the testing and labeling of their Stab-Loc breakers. The report may be given to your clients and to other parties concerned with electrical safety. There are no restrictions on its distribution. There seems to be nothing in the Board's directive that would prevent a Home Inspector from stating that the inspected home has an FPE panel and Stab-Loc breakers, and providing a copy of the report for information. I will be sending a copy along with additional material to the Kentucky Board, as well as to the Kentucky consumer protection, electrical, and fire prevention people. My message to them will be that: 1) the Board has acted without researching the topic, 2) that its action is contrary to the interest of public safety, and 3) that, in protecting a product that was sustained in the marketplace by fraud, the Board is essentially a party to the fraud. I suggest that those of you who agree that the Board's action is irresponsible and contrary to the interest of the home-occupants' safety should also write some letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Jesse, Thanks for your efforts. The address for the director of the board is: Terry M. Slade, Director Office of Housing, Buildings and Construction Kentucky Board of Home Inspectors 101 Sea Hero Road, Suite 100 Frankfort, KY 40601-5405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.