mgbinspect

Not legally...

And, when times are slow, like this, and you have multiple ways to passively remind people that you're alive and in the business, they think to contact you when they need your service. I just booked another hime inpection via FaceBook this morning - probably my tenth or so. Any form of presence on a social networking front is helpful, unless it's negative presence (I guess we've all seen folks do pretty horrifying things on such sights).

(Sorry for the thread drift, Sir Bain)

Well, saying it was bonded, may be an inaccurate statement. If memory serves (and it's been a few years back), it was two wire to the sub-panel (no ground wire that I recall) and no ground wire to a rod. Just a bus screwed to the back of the box that had the neutrals in it (and any circuit grounds, if there were any). (It may even be that it wasn't a sub-panel but was a separate service.) That's why I called him. Whatever the exact setup was, I had never seen a setup quite like it and really concluded that the entire system had no ground at all, unless as the friend proposed, the masonry provided one. So, therein, is my real question: Can masonry possibly constitute a ground? Would a qualified electrician (possibly old school) ever do this truly believing it was right?

I know this is getting away from outlets a bit Douglas, but while we're talking about grounding, I called a friend (electrician) that worked for a large manufacturing plant, a year or so back, about a sub-panel I ran across in an OLD garage that had no ground whatsoever - not even back to the main panel - nothing (the box was bonded though). He suspected that, while it was a pretty lousy and unreliable ground, that the masonry wall that the box was surface mounted to actually might provide one. He wasn't citing code, but rather recalling his schooling. Is that possible? (I still called for a formal ground, but I was VERY careful while inspecting that panel.)

Not any kind of fault, only a ground fault. If you get between the hot & the neutral in a GFCI protected circuit, you can fry yourself for all the GFCI cares. - Jim Katen, Oregon Of course, that could and would happen even with a two-prong outlet... So, I suppose that is why the building department took the stance they did?

That's interesting Mike. It's an added level of protection but it still isn't grounded. I'm not sure why they would find an ungrounded, 3-prong outlet, unacceptable but a 3-prong GFCI outlet acceptable. To take it one step further why not wire a whole home with 2 conductor wire and just put GFCI outlets throughout the home. Well, Terry, at the time the part that had me floored was the retrofit rule because I had been insisting that any refovated space had to meet new codes, and I was wrong about that in VA. I still recommend it, but I can't demand it. As far as GFCI on an ungrounded outlet goes, I still call it out as ungrounded, yet will the GFCI not trip if there is any kind of fault? My understanding is that it will... [:-wiltel]

You may want to check with your local building department, because their stances can be surprising. The head of the local building department spoke at our ASHI Chapter a while back and it was explained that in Virginia, for instance: * A home can be completely renovated, and yet GFCI is only required on a new electrical run. Old runs remain grand fathered, whether it's renovated space or not. * Ungrounded 3-prong outlets are a violation, but adding GFCI protection to such outlets makes the affair acceptable.

Padon' my little phone doesn't offer much of a photo and I thought you had aid "If" It was a sealed chamber. My bad.

It is a lot of potential leak points right in front of the burner chamber. I suppose that's not the best arangement. I've found leaks many times on that stretch of supply line.

MLS marketing statement: Gas water heater with a pre-heated gas burning system and an 'ever-warm' emergency shutoff valve handle. This home is designed with both technology and every creature comfort in mind. Must see to believe!"

What I see around here is an epoxy coated steel riser that comes out of the ground. Underground, it transitions to a flexible plastic pipe. I'm sure that there are several different versions. That would have been one of my guesses - some form of epoxy. I never realized, though, that buried gas lines were actually plastic. I feel a lot less comfortable with the idea of plastic gas lines than plastic water lines. It sounds so fragile (hopefully they're some pretty beefy plastic lines or reinforced somehow. It just sounds so fragile... BTW. here's an example of the odd corrosion (or deterioration may be a better word), I was bringing up: Click to Enlarge 49.61 KB I saw this on an inspection last week. Strange stuff, eh? Certainly that's not rust. It's probably some other protective surface gone bad. Maybe it's just been dinged up by a weed eater. I just told them to notify the local gas company that something didn't seem right - no leaks, just a bit of concern.

Does anyone know for sure - is it plastic gas line or is it just a jacket over something a bit tougher than plastic. Every time I've looked closely to a gas line as it comes out of the ground, I can't make heads or tails of what the material really is. It almost looks and feels a bit like lead, but I know that can't be the case. And I've also seen the surface oddly corroded. So, what is it?

What they said. I actually asked the local gas utility guy when he was turning on the gas at a home a few years back. Made sense. [:-graduat (I suppose if you scratch around, you should find it along almost every gas line installed in the past few years.)

The same kid in me that likes the story of David and Goliath really has me tempted to frame this and put it on the wall in my office. During the years I've been doing this, I've observed a very slow and curious movement within our profession away from code, as general standards to promote safety, and into a camp where code becomes a bit of a self-edifying religion demanding that we chant it, as we all march in lock-step. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for codes. In the 70's I walked through a home in WV that had particle board sub-floor on 24" centers with wicked sags between the joists fearing for my safety. I have simply never felt compelled to join the church of code. You da man, David.. eh.. Douglas [:-thumbu] All that being said, I have been an avid fan of Code Check since it first came out. It's a great little field reference for home inspectors. As a condensed and abridged version of the codes, complete with graphics to help visualize things, I couldn't imagine being without them.

Well, it certainly is refreshing to hear someone actually slap around the IRC a bit. That's a first. I'm smiling anyway, just because someone has the knowledge and the guts to do it. If nothing else, it's a refreshing switch.

No, no, no, no. Please don't spend money on this book. It's got incorrect information. Real architectural historians have said it's got stuff in there that's made up. I literally threw my copy away. You want to start with Identifying American Architecture by John Blumenson (one of the top architectural historians in North America). Next, read American Houses by Gerald Foster, a professor of architectural history at Harvard Grad School of design, UMass & Boston Architectural center. Mike, did you get my reply to your email? Now that you ask, Bill, in scouring my inbox I realize that I did receive a return e-mail form you. I somehow missed it. A thousand apologies. Thanks for your response.

Or not! My brothers had a friend pass away a year or so ago, every time I log on his page is in my friend suggestions. I find it disturbing, but his page is active because his little brother writes on his wall every day and many of his friends visit it often. I haven't been on in some time, it seems that I get 6-8 emails from facebook for every log in. I'll have to look into the sites on Scott's list to see if I like them any better. My brother passed away in March of last year after just opening a FaceBook account. He never even got his picture up, and barely filled out any info. It's an cyberspace memorial to him, I suppose. I too think it helps your business a bit, in this market, simply by keeping you out there - a constant passive reminder of who you are and what you do. I can't attest to any jobs from it, for certain, but I believe it has helped.

I imagine with the right shower head, 90 lbs ought to darn near skin ya...

In fact, I now own the only copy Barnes & Noble had, and it appears to be exactly what I hoped for. Thanks for your advice, Jim, and the second Bain. [:-thumbu]Click to Enlarge 82.83 KB[:-thumbu] [:-eyebrow

Excellent! I'll endure reading. It will be tough... but I'll get through it. If you are both endorsing it, I know it's a keeper.

The main value of FaceBook is that everyone on there knows you're still living.

Does anyone, per chance, have an outstanding link or PDF (preferable), that catalogs the various past classic home designs, i.e., Victorian, Federal, Cape, etc with pictures and brief descriptions? There seem to be quite a few out there on the Internet, but most of them are really lacking. What I'm looking for would be closer to an encyclopedia of home architecture. Thanks in advance, as always. Mike

On a side note, great local water pressure there, eh?

Update: The shower head has been changed out, which has made a noticeable different, but has not altogether solved the problem. Condensation still beads up on the semi-gloss surface of the ceiling pretty heavily. Now, I'll scrutinize the bathroom vent from the fan to the exterior. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.