Jim Morrison

It's hard for me to disagree with most of what is posted in this thread, but I offer the following: Gerry, You wrote: "any state or municipality that feels the need to license home inspectors is doing so because of perceived defficiencies with existing inspectors." I've yet to see evidence this was the genesis of the licensing effort in our Commonwealth. Mike: You underestimate the chi of the average inspector. Guys, It's easy to poke holes in any licensing requirement. As far as I can tell, none of them hold much water. You guys make valid points. Those of you who didn't get grandfathered think everyone should have to take a test. Those of us who did think everyone else should have to take a test. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying I'm glad that's how it was. Maybe this will send this thread in a different direction, but I submit that mandatory homeowner disclosures (which we don't have in MA) would go a lot further in protecting homebuyers than any licensing law. The reason we don't have one is, it would be a lot harder to pass. Lao Tzu

In the interest of full disclosure, you should know that when HI's in MA were licensed, I was grandfathered in. I think grandfathering in home inspectors is legitimate. Our field is essentially about 30 years old and many of the guys who got grandafathered were the ones who invented home inspections (myself excluded). You want to test them on their knowledge of the field they invented. That would be like giving Alexander Graham Bell a test to become a telephone operator. Guys, we live in an imperfect world. Whoever compared watching the legislative process to watching sausage production understated its ugliness. Discussions like these are what lead to ASHI's "White Paper on Legislation" They basically said: "We know we can't get a perfect law, so let's spell out the components of what would make a good law". Not to bring politics into the argument, but I'd advise anyone in an unlicensed state, to get together as many HI's as you can and go through that process so you'll be prepared when licensing comes to town. By the time it gets there, it's too late.

Dan, I'm not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make. First you say you think new guys should bitching about weak licensing requirements because you had it tougher, then you follow up with something along the lines of "Licensing means nothing because some licensed professionals I know of are incompetent and/or crooked" Are you simply trying to say there will never be a law that absolutely protects the homebuying public from dishonest and unqualified home inspectors? If so, I agree. I opposed licensing in my state for too long. It took a long while before I conceded the fact that it would not be stopped and tried to get on board to help shape it. By then it was too late. If you want a decent HI law, write it, or have it written for you by a committee of legislators who know nothing about our discipline.

Rob and Terry are both right. If a gas burner is perfectly tuned, it will not produce any CO. However, once the flame is impinged by placing a pot on the burner, it will make some CO. If the burner is not perfectly adjusted, it gets worse. Tryptophan isn't the only reason you get sleepy after Thanksgiving dinner.

Terry wants to do the work, and I get to sit behind a keyboard, have Mike to pour me a beer, and learn something for free? I'm ready to endorse that plan.

Terry, Technically, you are correct, but it is a rarity for Dennis or me to see a circulator installed on the supply side of a forced hot water boiler. It is almost never done this way and in residential applications, it really doesn't matter. Boiler manufacturers (including Weil McLain) ship their residential boilers with circulators installed on the return side (if they were located on the supply, it would be impossible to stack one atop another in a warehouse), so that's how they are installed. In the real world of residential home inspections, it is a non-issue.

George, You need a wrench for gas cocks in MA. Jim

Dennis, That Repco boiler looks identical to the one my father had installed in his house in 1978. I think they made a steel boiler at that time as well.

Brian, It does sound like a drum trap. In the 50's around here they were usually brass. Since they aren't vented, they can be a bitch to replace. Retrofitting a vent in an existing residence can tricky.

Just click the "home" button on your browser, Dennis. I think its www.ihina.org

That's some mighty nice penguin' smackin' Terry. My hat is off to you,

Erol, If the bathroom has no exterior walls, that is common. If it is on an outside wall, that would be unusual in my neck of the woods.

Donald, Tough to tell from that pic, but they look like the asbestos cement shingles I see around here. Normally, if you can get a close look, you'll notice the face of the shingle is not smooth, but abraded and fibrous. Because they aren't smooth, the hold dirt, moss, and algae pretty well.

And how do you correct for poor aim? My toilet doesn't leak, but I have 3 and 5 year old sons who are still honing their skills. The dampness around my subfloor is a result of their plumbing, not the house's.

I test every stain I find on interior surfaces. I record my findings in my report like this: "The stain on the dining room ceiling was dry this morning." or "The stain on the dining room ceiling was wet this morning. The leak above it must be located and repaired by a plumber now." I don't know if it has ever saved my life, but a moisture meter gives you some great information. Stains that look wet and recent often aren't, and stains I's swear are old and dry sometimes aren't. I believe it is a tool every inspector should own.

Hi J, This is a great site, freequented by loads of friendly and smart people. They're very approachable and most are willing to answer your every question, or at least try to point you toward someone who can. But we follow a certain personal model here. Your username and profile are empty, except for a letter. The message that sends is: "Hello, I'd like some of your knowledge, but I'm unwilling to tell you anything about myself." Fill in your profile a little, and watch the replies come rolling in. Welcome aboard,

Absolutely. Playful, good natured kidding is encouraged around here. I dish a little, I take a little. It's all in fun. Life's too short,

Gerry also uses a special filter that converts his British voice into American sounding text. When he says: "lift", it actually prints "elevator". "Bangers and Mash Home Inspections" translates to "Encoga Property Management". Quite brilliant!

Well Erol, Just because I talk a lot, don't think I'm an authority on what it takes to make it in the HI business. Plenty of folks flop out at various stages of their careers, but the ones who have the best chance are the ones who honestly review and reinforce their weaknesses for the rest of their careers. Maybe it isn't so different from other professions... Bill, Please bring your son to IW next year so I can tell him all about my support group for sons who learned the HI business from their Dads. Talking about it is the first stage of the healing process.

I normally stick to my policy of not disagreeing with people who are twice as smart as I am, but I have to disagree with Bill Loden on this one. Good HI's spend a lot of time learning throughout their career. We are reminded daily (often hourly) that we'll never know it all. It can leave the most experienced person feeling like they are perpetually one seminar away from being comfortably competent. But the fact is, a monkey could be trained to do most of the technical part of what we do. If you don't believe me, wait 18 months until Kurt's first generation of monkeycams is out of development and on the market. I don't have a degree in construction technology, zero business training, and I have comparatively little construction experience. What I am is a reasonably intelligent person whose father was willing to hire him when the people in charge in my chosen field weren't. I worked alongside him, went to every seminar within driving distance (and still do), and read whatever I could get my hands on (and still do). I was probably 22 when I did my first one on my own (after being a helper for 5 years) I don't mean to compare myself to Albert Einstein, but like him, I know I don't know 1% of anything. However, I know enough to do what we do. Most of the guys in this business were dangerously incompetent when they started, myself included. It's a very different standard than NASA's- and thank God for that. I'll give you $100 for every inspector you can dig up who has been at this job for 20 years and looking back, thinks he was ready when he did his first one. The standards Bill suggested are fabulous, but if they were minimum standards for HI work, there would be no new inspectors. Great for business, but somewhat unfair. That said, I am also tired of big fat guys on construction sites asking me how much I charge for an inspection and telling me they want to get their HI license because they are tired of working hard. I aint skinny because I avoid beer and fatty foods... It aint easy, and it aint always lucrative, but (forgive me this once), it aint rocket science either.

I really like testdriving my new Suretest and consider it my second favorite tool. My first, or course, being "broker repellant" (a 4' long dandelion blade). The next electrical tools I hope to acquire are Douglas' home and cell phone numbers so I can reach him any time of the day or night if I find myself in an electrical or other quandry. I wonder why he doesn't post them both on the CodeCheck site? It would certainly simplify my life.

Chip, There are some real fart smellers here and we all learn from each other every day. If you're humble, thick-skinned, and hard-working, you'll learn a lot here. Most inspectors (myself included) think we know more than we do. Not one of us will ever document more then 15% of the defects in a given house. We just hope we find the most important ones.

Marvin, That question is a little too big to answer in one post. You are smart to admit to yourself that you don't know much. Many newcomers to our field seem to think they know it all before they do their first inspection. In our business, overconfidence is the short road to failure. I suggest that you attend as many meetings of the local chapters of CREIA, ASHI, NAHI, NACHI, etc. as you can. Each org has a distinctly different feel and you'll soon learn which one is the best fit for you. If I lived in California, I'd probably start with CREIA. Good Luck,

You gotta love disclaiming UST's up and down and then finding one based on very little evidence. Few things can make you look as good to your client. On the other hand, inspecting in my territory makes you and Dennis look like enemy raiding parties to me, so would you both kindly stay within the borders of your own fetid neighborhoods (that would be Greater Chelsea for Dennis, and Greater Brockton for Rob)? Thanks in advance, Jim "The Rest of the Commonwealth" Morrison

Chip, I know George Moomaw, I've posted with George Moomaw, and sir, I'm no George Moomaw. But I'm assuming you would have noticed a gas or oil burner on the air handler, so I must guess you were looking at a heat pump or electric furnace. A heat pump or electric furnace that doesn't heat the house when the thermostat is raised is busted. I think If I raised the thermostat on an inspection like that, checked the breakers, the thermostat, and the shutoff, and still nothing happened, I'd tell my client the heat didn't work and someone smarter than myself should figure out why and fix it. However, finding a furnace that won't heat in the winter is rare where I come from. Was the house warm and cozy or as cold as a well digger's thumb when you got there?