energy star

I would go into the attic and look around a bit.

Either bad or not installed close enough to the heat source.

Thanks Jim, I see all your points, and they are valid. I only wanted to help. Being pretty familiar with HVAC systems, I guess I just feel more comfortable with them. I have been thinking about this forum and I do like it. I have also thought about this as a business for me to enter into. After reading over many different threads under many different topics, I realize your position. I will say I'm a bit confused about the depth one must dig into on any one particular issue when inspecting a home. I mean if you really wanted to test the havc system completely, that in itself could take two to three hours. HVAC service techs seldom do that. I do own many test instruments to execute many tests to pin point a problem because I enjoy doing it. I must remember you guys come in at a bit of a different angle. I know you all only want the best for the customer as I do, so we do have that in common. I will admit I'm going to dig a bit deeper into this issue with all manufactures and see if trane, York, Goodman say the same thing. I may or may not post my findings. I came here to learn about test techniques in other ares and instrument reviews. That said, I can make some simple test procedures for you and members that may give a little better of a heads up on how a system is actually working. As always, I came to learn and help, not to tout my abilities.

No engineer in any building designing heat pumps will say that a heat pump can not run at 65,66,67,68,69&70 degrees. ANYWHERE. Have some fun.....Go to the yellow pages and call every single HVAC contractor in your area and ask them. I never mentioned RPM's just blade styles. Air handler captures more air.

You are not debating fair. At 65,66,67,68,69 &70 a home needs heat. The system is designed and built by the manufacture to supply heat at those temperatures as a heat pump only. When its 90 out you are out of all design temps for heat.

Yes the heat pump of course. Do you not see that the manufactures instruction booklet is contradicting itself? Say its 68 outside and my t-stat is set at 70. My temp in the home slowly drops to 69. The heat pump will automatically come on in the heat pump mode! So why is a system designed and engineered by the manufacturerid="blue"> to come on and off all day long with no resistance heat at or above the 65 degree mark to satisfy my 70 degree set point in those same instructions? To Terrance, ''As stated before, the surface area of the condenser is much greater than the surface area of the evaporator. The amount of heat that the condenser will pull from the air, in the heat pump mode with high ambient temperatures, is more then the evaporator can reject which will cause high head.'' The air handler fan moves way more air across its coil and at a faster rate than the fan in the OD unit. The each have a different fan blade.

Morning. Yes thanks for showing that post. I wanted to show Jim that because he made mention of my remark to that claim. Before I tell you if I agree or Disagree, let me remind us all how this post started. It was a question about testing a heat pump. Many said a heat pump can't be tested if the temp is above 65. This is wrong. Way wrong. You can turn a heat pump on at 65, 66,67,68,69,70. You will not damage one thing. Yes you will be running a higher head pressure but no where near the designed limits of that cut off. You will hurt nothing. So from an inspection standpoint I would turn on a heat pump simply to test in almost all conditions. My answer: I disagree with your buddy. Both coils are matched to work with each other. The R&D team made sure of that. Like I asked, if it is 68 outside and my stat is set to 70, and then my temp falls to 69 or a tad lower, what heat will kick on to satisfy my stat at the 70 degree set point?

Tell me then Jim, when its 65 degrees outside and my house t-stat is set at 70, and my inside temp falls to 69, what form of heat is going to kick on to bring it up to set point with a heat pump? If you have ice on the coil, you need to adjust the defrost timer to check for defrost more often. You can change that. Yeah I know all about "it may be low on freon". Still, the defrost time could be changed to occur more often. Also, "hybrid" is a new word for "Dual fuel" that has been around a while, means the same thing.

it was an anti corrosive spray that was sold.

Simple. Check this out. You are saying not to run a heat pump above the temp of 65 degrees. Why? You did post some instructions and a link. I read them. It's a typo, they are wrong. The whole idea of a heat pump is to save money heating the home. What you are saying is that when the temp gets to be 65 the heat pump will shut off and the electric heat will turn on. So now our efficient heat pump is not given the opportunity to work because the condenser coil (inside coil in winter) can't dissipate the heat? Nope, no way. The auxiliary heat, back up heat and emergency heat are all the same thing. You have no emergency heat coil and a back up heat coil they are one in the same. The only time the back up heat will come on automatically is when it gets to cold outside making it difficult for the outside coil to extract heat from the air. So the heat pump runs and runs and runs until the thermostat temp actually falls about .5 to 1.5 degrees. That signals the second stage bulb to drop (Old type stats) or in a digital the 2nd stage sensor. This turns on the auxiliary heat. This auxiliary heat can or could be staged to come on. For the most part it all comes on at once, 10kw or 15kw. Most systems have 10 kw installed that will usually work well with a 2.5 ton system. Anyways the electric heat comes on. Yes this is the same heat that is the back up heat, auxiliary heat and emergency heat. It now will warm the air up in the plenum and duct system and into the house. This heats the home and will satisfy the thermostat and the system will shut down. If its cold out the heat pump just may seem to always run and the electric heat will come on and off as the second stage bulb dictates. That explains the auxiliary heat. The emergency heat comes on when you manually move the lever on the stat to emergency heat. this will not allow the outdoor unit to run at all. The only thing that will be operating is the resistance heat (all of it) looks like a hair dryer going full tilt. Another thing to know. We have all seen the ice on the outdoor unit in the winter before. So heat pumps have a defrost cycle to melt this ice. It is done by the reversing valve many of you have mentioned. It puts the system into a/c mode. It will now let the outdoor unit be the condenser to throw that heat from inside the house to the outside. It does this only for a short time. While this is going on (a/c blowing in the house in Feb) the resistance heaters are again turned on to over power the cold air that is coming out of the supply vents. So you never really know that a/c is on. It makes no sense that if it is 65 degrees outside the unit will only activate the resistance heaters. No units have controls for that. That is the birth of dual fuel, or better know as hybrid systems. They are heat pumps over top of a fossil fuel heat source. When it's to cold for the heat pump to work the furnace is activated. When its warmer outside and the heat pump has good weather to extract heat from, the heat pump comes on. Thats the latest craze in the recent fuel hikes. So what your saying a heat pump only works when its not to cold and not to warm? So that would mean it works from 20-25 to 65 degrees? Nope. Look at it this way. If what you say is true everyones electric bill would be sky high. Everyone with a heat pump would be running resistance heat from 65 degrees up to the typical set point of 70. Everywhere! Not gonna happen. Their is NO control in any heat pump to shut it off at 65 and just let the resistance heat work. You just shot the whole SEER & COP rating system in the leg. My ultra high efficiency system just became a dog if I'm relying on the most expensive type of heat one can buy to heat my house from 60 to 70. I will post a good way to test a heat pump this week if you guys want.

The utility won't shut off a heat pump to run a gas furnace. They will turn the a/c off but I have never heard of shutting off a heat pump. It would kinda negate the idea of the whole hybrid system.

Don't freak. I know I'm new here, but this thread is all wrong. All wrong. Not running a heat pump in the heat mode above 65 degrees? Sorry fellas, its done all day long.

Read name plate and see if the temperature rise is in the accepted parameters. The bottom side of the filter is letting unfiltered air in, not good.

I have installed many.

Eric, I really hope thats a down-flow configuration in the pic above.

OK, You got me. I guess a baked potato would be better. At least when done with this simple experiment you could eat it.

Then its inside the compressor, but it has a heater. 27 years old, I hope you told them it's time to replace? Whats the model # One more point. Have some fun. Go grab two items you can toss in the oven and heat to 150 or 200 degrees. Set one 3" from your temp gun and one about 16" from the gun. Even though both rocks (or whatever) are heated to the same temp, you will get two different readings.

Fuel fired water heaters have to be 18" off the ground, not electric. A fuel fired water heater can be installed at grade in an adjoining room to the garage if you have access to that room from an other area than the garage (outside door) 10 to 1 the panel is in the garage (In site) If the blow off valve drips enough to fill that "trap" it needs to be replaced. They should never drip.

The crankcase heater was on. A heater, either wraps around or is installed in the compressor to prevent the the migration of liquid refrigerant to the compressor (out side) R-22 will always go to the coldest area in the system. A compressor is designed to pump gas not liquid. (Scroll compressors have less of a problem) So after a long sit in the cold, and the first start up occurs a gas is present, not liquid that will slug up the compressor and perhaps damage it. I do not know why the the fan shroud or casing was a bit warmer? Heat gain from the sun. I would not think that the crankcase heater would generate the much excessive heat, but I could be wrong. I find I do get things wrong more than I would like. Ha ha.

Nope. 55 degrees all the time.

Uh, that thing needs to be replaced now. Combustion air via the port hole? Please tell them to clean the area up, looks like maps or charts and paper on the floor. I would like to see the flue from the water heater and this thing. I bet it's a pretty picture. (If the water heater is gas)

I think he may have a two stage gas valve.

Nope. Just want to help the guy with the heat prob. But hay, oops, hey, thanks.

What size is it? It may be to small.

Supply grills covered? Fan speed to low? Damper's on supply drops? Did they vibrate closed? Is the thermostat an old T-87. Check the heat anticipator. You can see if the return is to small simply by taking off the blower door, taping the blower switch down in the closed position and see if the unit runs longer. Did you measure the supply air temp in the plenum? Is the flue under sized? Is it too long, maybe to long of a horizontal run? So many simple things may be causing the problem. Me, I love to figure this type of stuff out. Piece of cake. Let me know if I can help you out via the phone or email.