Richard Moore

"Code"? Never heard of it!

Mike.. I totally agree on the rating determination. Beyond the SOP. I wasn't really suggesting that Lance start moving things around. Whether a fridge is "fastened in place", such as a disposal is, seems to be open to interpretation. My own "built-in" fridge is "fastened in place", with the plug accessible through the top compressor compartment. Dedicated circuit of course. A regular fridge? Dunno...but if it WAS on the same circuit I don't see much difference between a built-in and a regular fridge. BTW...(422-8d2c,d)??? Which NEC you using? Can't find that one.

Lance… NEC 210.52(B)(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small appliance circuits, either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 250(B)(1). {basically pantries and dining rooms} …there’s more but that’s all we need. 210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaries, shall not exceed 50% of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied. I believe a fridge would be considered fastened in place. So…Yes, it is permitted for the 2 20amp kitchen small appliance countertop circuits to feed other receptacles in the kitchen, including the fridge BUT that fridge has to be rated at 10 amps or less. Obviously, the permitted (but not "required") separate 15 or 20 amp circuit for the fridge would be a better set up.

I wouldn't want them to think you're a complete nut Mike...so be sure to tell them that it's a 100 vertical feet and not just 100 feet further away. Beautiful day for a ferry ride wasn't it?

Mike... It takes about 34 feet of fresh water to exert 15 psi (from my diving days). I don't know where the top of the water in the tower was in relation to the home but if all you are using is gravity don't automatically expect fire-hose pressure. The problem may be that the home is too close to the tank. Recommend moving the house down the hill a 100' or so. That will give you another 45 PSI.

Lance... The "no other outlets" refers to lighting etc, as Mike pointed out. "Outlets" are undefined power taps while "receptacles" or "receptacle outlet" refers to the "thingies you stick a plug in" (technical term). So yes, you can feed the receptacles (and an electric clock) in a dining room from the kitchen small appliance circuit. If one of those receptacles then fed an exterior GFCI receptacle it would be wrong as that "space" isn't listed in 210.52(B)(1).

There was an interesting thread on another forum on whether it was OK to connect neutrals to grounding bars. What I got out of it was that the neutral bus is the only place for neutrals whether bonded or not. Neutrals are conductors that “normally carry currentâ€

Thanks Danny...That 'splains it. Don't get to see many exterior panels on SFR's around here. Must be all the rain.

Chad... They appear to be solid conductors, so "probably" 14 awg minimum. But, like you, I would like to know what they are doing in this panel in the first place. Danny's post and picture would seem to indicate that this panel contains only the main breaker.

Danny... If the main disconnect is outside at the meter then that is the main service equipment. Doesn't really matter though. The terminal you show appears to be a regular round hole/screw lug and, unless it is identified in the panel as suitable for more than one non-grounding conductor, it's wrong. I'm also wondering, as this is a main disconnect, how the hot side of those whites and greens are being fed?

Any chance that could be the result of a lightning strike...perhaps at the service drop or mast?

Here's the electrical connection instructions for Insinkerator disposals. http://www.prwebworks.com/insinkerator.pdf Not much help I'm afraid.

Danny... Someone's perverted idea to stop nuisance tripping? I might be wrong on this...(Where's Doug?)...but it seems to me that the amperage is being divided between the two parallel connected breakers and would effectively require double the load to trip. It may not be quite that well balanced but I'm pretty sure that the wire AWG is no longer adequately protected.

Chad...got up in the middle of the night...and was bored. Hence the following...no charge.[8D] Download Attachment: Chadslogo.gif 188.41 KB Gonna be tough to make it work on the truck though!

Chad... I like it...a lot. If the question mark makes them look twice and think a little, all the better. Go get 'em. PS...I think you get to pay him now.[:-yuck]

In the last couple of weeks I've been hanging around an NEC code forum (reading only) trying to edjukate myself a little. There are 14,000 plus members, mostly electricians of one sort or another. If the NEC isn't hard to understand then how come there seems to be 14,000 different interpretations of it there? Me...well I still have trouble with the concept of electricity itself. I drew myself a mind picture a few years back of three elephants turning a windlass attached to a generator. 100 miles away are three elephants spinning around on a carousel powered by an electric motor. Somehow the mechanical power is being transferred from the first group to the second along a thin wire with no moving parts. What's up with that? You can talk all you want about excited electrons etc but, to someone like me who never approached being a molecular scientist, you might as well be describing how the transporter works on the Enterprise. It’s all just magic and the NEC is a convoluted sorcerer’s manual on how to safely handle the dragon. BTW…other things I have trouble grasping fully… Infinity…how can space never end and if it did…what’s beyond that? The Big Bang theory… actually I have less trouble understanding how the whole universe came from something the size of a football than I do with the question…â€

Mike... I have to agree. I get the calls at least twice a year...still for my old business. The "Someone called us and asked about you" or statements like that seem like total tele-marketing BS. I think the intent and purpose of the BBB was once pure and worthwhile, but now I keep expecting them to tell me I've won a prize and I can collect it only if I give them my credit card numbers.

Got mine last April…no instructions. Ideal didn’t have a file at that time but created one since which I downloaded, cut up, and made my own little manual. http://www.idealindustries.com/pdf/nd3595_2.pdf for those who are google-challenged. First house I did with it was a 1920’s home with partially updated wiring. I reported a bunch of ungrounded 3-hole outlets and one false ground in the kitchen. Even though I knew about the 15 foot thing from others, I got kind of turned around in the house and didn’t realize I was close to the basement panel. It was sometime later before I started questioning my finding. [:-banghead] Never did hear back from the buyer, and there were enough other problems in the home that required an electrician so that it wasn’t a big deal. Sparky probably just assumed the inspector (me) was an idiot [:-propeller] or maybe, just maybe, it was truly a jumped outlet. [:-graduate] Anyway…since then I pop the cover plate off any that I get the reading on no matter where I am in the home…just to be sure. I’ve found three so far that clearly had no ground and a jumper from the neutral. Fun to show the client those ones [:-magnify] and they made the expense worthwhile! The rest have turned out to be false readings because of proximity. [:-turtle] BTW…I’m on my second unit. The first went dead on me mid-inspection after 6 months. I got a new replacement unit no charge but for a couple of weeks I felt a little less professional using a $5 tester. Never did get an explanation of what caused the failure. Anyone else had problems?

Gentlemen... I know thread drift is inevitable, but could we please return to the main question? Did Scott ever find his hampster?

John... Wow! Very impressive. I hereby nominate you as this forum's "Grand IRT Poombah". [:-captain] Ask Mike for the hat that comes with the title. BTW...nice touch with Saddam. []

Plumbing Inspection Report Conditions: 98°F, sun not shining. Description: Self contained waste system (no hookup to city sewer) located in 1949 mobile home. Method of Inspection: Access hatch inadequate for physical entry. Inspection conducted using flexible bore-scope (model U.P. Uranus II). Findings: Design was typical of this type of structure. One small anomaly was detected and removed otherwise no significant defects were observed that might adversely affect the function or drainage of the system. Pressure relief valve was tested at the conclusion of the inspection and found to be in good working order (although somewhat noisy). Although the inspection was limited to the plumbing it was observed that the overall structure was bulging a little at the midpoint. This might be due to lack of proper maintenance or excessive fuel intake. Recommendations: Suggest next inspection be scheduled for 2009. Meanwhile…re-fueling can resume immediately although quantities could perhaps be reduced. End of report. -------------------------- PS…Thanks guys! Richard

Tomorrow I am having my waste disposal system inspected by video-scope via the rear clean-out. It’s just highly recommended routine maintenance as the surrounding structure is over 50 years old. Hopefully there will be no need for further evaluation, sample analysis, or invasive and destructive testing by licensed and qualified specialists. While the procedure itself is straightforward, preparation requires that no solids be ingested at the intake for two days and that the system be purged, not once but twice. This is difficult as the controlling mechanism is programmed to demand fuel on a regular basis. Therefore…I’m kind of grumpy! Richard The good news is that I will not be posting any pictures.