Richard Moore

I'm going to assume you mean bonded at the hot and cold water pipes above the heater. IF the electric WH was properly grounded, and you could be absolutely sure you had full metal to metal contact at the connections, and the water heater was never going to be replaced, then I guess the bonding strap would be redundant. However, because of plastic dip-tubes, washered unions, and the fact that all WHs will need to be removed at some point, then the answer to your question is YES, same requirement for gas or electric. In most homes there is probably effective bonding of the hot/cold piping at the shower mixing valves. I say probably because more and more "stuff" is made of plastic nowadays. Of course, if that valve(s) was removed for service or replacement you could break the continuity of the bond. The bonding strap at the water heater may be superfluous MOST of the time but it's very worthwhile insurance.

The CH and CHP have the same specs as far as allowing 2 conductors. Download Attachment: CHbreakers.jpg 92.3 KB Monte...I don't read that as "a solid and a stranded". To me it reads any combination of the two (ie. 2 solid, 2 stranded, or one of each).

Gotta disagree there Mike...assuming this is recent wiring. Then the main grounding electrode should be the metal water service (with a #4 GEC connected within 5' of where it enters the building). The ground rod is "supplemental" to the water piping (#4 or #6 fine).

I don't think the issue is whether or not it is on a GFCI circuit. It hardly seems like a safety issue if the closet light goes out while choosing the right tie. But...there is that bit in 210.11©(3) about bathroom receptacle circuits having "no other outlets". Old home...I'd say no big deal. New home or new wiring...it's a "defect".

Chad... Lets remember that this is not the franchise we were talking about in a previous (deleted?) thread. However, there still is that "fair and balanced" thing. FYI...I've posted the following on the NACHI site...

If it were China, I'd suspect a methane gas plant and I wouldn't want to know what is generating the gas!

Ron... Only rhe service disconnect is required to have 6 or less throws. What you are describing is perfectly normal for a condo disribution panel. In other words...nothing to call.

Paul... Try a food grade silcone spray. Good lubricant, odorless, and doesn't turn black. I know you can get it at any SCUBA store, if you have one nearby. Also on line at http://www.aaaindustrialsupply.com/inde ... ategory=24 amongst others.

That BIA site has to be one of the best out there. Don... "Also, the only egress window in the Master Suite was a 30" long x 15" high swing out window (it only opened about 10 inches) that led to the balcony. Couldn't find anything where the IBC blessed this. Wasn't the master suite balcony accessible by an exterior door (slider)? Why would you need to squeeze out via the window?

You're in denial Mike. [:-magnify Download Attachment: soffitSEC.jpg 25.7 KB Nice sharp openings too! Did they add a story or a new roof to bury the weatherhead, service point, etc like this? Only allowed in the 60's if the building inspector was on really good pot. FE?...I'd say needs prompt repair by a sparky and/or the utility company.

Mike... You've hooked two Brits (Gerry and me) into this thread so far...no surprise. I've been away from the old country a lot longer than than that bloke and have no clue as to how things work back there. I wasn't questioning motive. That seems pure. It's just that few of "us" here would recommend a buyer rely solely on an pre-sale inspection report. Anyway...thanks for the links to the newsletters...I'm still reading them. As for meaningful testing over grandfathering here. Bring it on...the tougher the better, but everyone has to take the tests. There would have to be a reasonable grace period or "fair warning" for established HI's. You can't just turn off someone's only source of income. How this gets achieved with 50 individual States and as many versions of the "old guard" is the problem. It's a lot easier to pass sweeping legislation in the UK, where even the 4 countries are more homogenous than, say, Washington and Idaho.

Interesting! Looks fine at first glance but my concern is that this would negate the perception that a buyer should have an inspection done by the independant inspector of their choosing. Who gets to choose the HCR inspector? The listing agent?

This is about 1400 amps more than I'm used to. I'm assuming that is a grounded conductor where the aluminum and copper are incorrectly joined? As for the foam...I'll guess that the heat dissipation qualities of the conductors are seriously degraded and also that moisture could now collect in the conduit.

C'mon guys... You don't recognize a combination space heater/humidifier when you see one? I think you can buy these at Duller Image.

Just like a reglar TPR, the sensing element should be immersed in the top 6" of water in the TANK. http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/IS-210-5.pdf or http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/ES-210-5.pdf So, yes, it's wrong. Funky draft hood...how old was the heater?

Just remember that the wet stuff in the boat house where the floor normally is is supposed to be there.

Besides what everyone else said...I gotta ask what type of circuit has two white conductors going to seperate poles of a double breaker? (photo 1) Or is that a black that has been painted white? The breaker is off in the photo. Might be ineteresting when they turn it on. Very strange set-up!

Thanks Mike, et al... Good thread..I is mor edgukated than beefor.

The two ground rods at the service equipment are because some soil conditions make resistance too high with just one. Having one somewhere else would not be a substitute as a lightning strike on the service drop (etc) would have to travel along the EGCs to get to it. THAT may be the reason the pump ground rod is not a good idea.(?) I'm now officially over my head and pulling things out of my butt!

Chad... This is from Mike Holts newsletters. It's one of the best explanations I've seen of why a ground rod alone isn't safe. "Danger: Because the resistance of the earth is so high, very little current will return to the power-supply neutral if the earth is the only ground-fault return path. If a ground rod is the only ground (bonding) connection, then the earth is being used as the sole ground-fault current path, in violation of 250.4(A)(5). The result is that the circuit overcurrent protection device will not open and metal parts will remain energized at a lethal level waiting for someone to make contact with them and the earth. Therefore, a ground rod cannot be used to lower touch voltage to a safe value for metal parts that aren't bonded to an effective ground-fault current path." If the pool pump does have a EGC back to the panel, then I'm real fuzzy on the potential thing and whether the extra ground rod does any harm.

As Kurt said...connection quality. There is no way of knowing if the screw is torquing down on both conductors or just one. Besides the arcing you could end up with an open neutral...also not good. I have also seen the argument that it's because anyone working on a circuit (changing, adding, or removing) might create an open neutral on a live circuit...even if only temporarily. Both scenariors make sense to me, but the clincher is that the terminals are simply not rated (listed?) for more than one current carrying conductor. The fine print on some panels allows 2 or more bare grounding conductors under a single screw depending on their size. None that I know of allow more than a single neutral.

Greg...you are joking...right? If not, you are either wildly over-confident or simply the most amazing inspector. X-ray vision? Even the most knowledgeable inspector, despite being as thorough as humanly possible, will miss stuff on on a regular basis. However, in this case, the reason you missed the double-tapped neutrals is because you didn't know about them (and you should have). You probably won't miss those again, but don't you think it's possible that there are other unknown things you are "not missing". I know I'm going to continue learning until the day they box me up. Don't ever fool yourself that you know it all. Sorry if that sounded like a lecture but, if it wasn't in jest, it's a worrisome statement.

"I don't get the Holiday Inn Express thing." Sorry Chad...I must be watching too much TV. It's a series of commercials. Too much typing needed to explain a bad joke.

Slow day Chad? I think you already know the answer, but, despite not being an electrician, nor staying at a Holiday Inn Express, let me give it a stab. With a little luck the grounding conductors are wrapped tight enough around the cable clamps to provide an adequate connection. With a little luck the cable clamps are sufficiently torqued down and enough paint has been scraped away. With a little luck, this unapproved method is providing effective grounding and will be able to handle enough ground fault current to trip the OCPD. Now you will have to excuse me as I go off and search the NEC for "a little luck" being acceptable. Don't hold your breath.