Brian G

Originally posted by hausdok Did you check the lable on that ITE panel to see whether it's listed for 42 stabs? That's a lot. Bet some of those need to be moved to that sub-panel. 42 is as big as a residential panel gets, but normally a 200 amp stops at 40 and you have to go 225 to get the extra 2 circuits. If this is an older panel I suppose it could be a 200 amp 42 circuit; not really that much difference. Brian G. Lotso Spaces [:-bigeyes

Originally posted by Jim Katen Look carefully at the picture. During the normal, day-to-day operation of those panels -- not during a freak occurance where something goes wrong -- some of the return current from the sub panel is going to flow over the feeder's neutral conductor and some of the current will flow over the 8" conduit. For ten points, who can tell me why this situation is bad? I'll give it a try since takers are few. As I understand it, the current that goes across the 8" nipple will then pass to the enclosure, allowing the current to continue moving on the ground wires bonded to the enclosure. Hence all of the grounded/bonded items in the house can have current flowing over them; stoves, washers and dryers, toasters, HVAC, you name it. Then all you need is for someone to touch such an item and be grounded somehow, and ZAP! You may not be on a train, but you are a conductor. [] So...close, or not? Brian G. What Are These Points Good For, By the Way? [?]

Originally posted by hausdok Ah, no Brian, the ground bus (in that case - terminal) was connected directly to the enclosure. Okay, I re-read the post and I've got you. No second bar, just an improvised terminal screwed right to the enclosure. My bad. I swear, you'd think finding and installing an add-on equipment ground bar was a major ordeal. Every manufacturer makes them; every wholesale electrical supply worth 2 cents carries them in stock. Most have 2, count 'em 2, mounting screws, that fit in pre-drilled holes in the enclosure. *sigh* Yeah, I've seen lots of new panels where the equipment ground bus is isolated from the enclosure and there needs to be a screw or strap connecting the enclosure to the ground bus but not in situations where the bus is mounted directly on the enclosure without an insulator. I like the ones with two full-length neutral bars connected by a removable jumper bar, both with bonding screw holes. Take out the jumper and you have instant sub panel capability. Brian G. Versatility Is Good [:-thumbu]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt 1) Simple problem solving - what is not working right.id="blue"> 2) Peace of mind - what was done wrong and is likely to fail to work right.id="blue"> 3) Property value - what is working right, was done right but is going to need replacement soon.id="blue"> 4) Pride of ownership - what is working right, was done right, has plenty of life remaining, but the buyer for what ever reason doesn't like it.id="blue"> Determining if something is satisfactory with respect objective 1 is easy. Doing it for 2 and 3 tougher and with respect the fourth objective were clearly not charged with that duty. I definitely agree that # 4 is not part of what a professional home inspector should be doing. We should be advocates only for the facts and our own professional opinions, not for a given client's whims. My question is on what basis do you form an opinion as to whether or not an item of inspection is satisfactory? It does get grey sometimes, but mostly I'm looking for anything significant that isn't right for any reason. Installed wrong, wrong material, breaking down or wearing out, flat-out not working, working but having problems, safety issues, etc. Little things don't make the summary, but everything gets reported. If I had to boil every questionable item down to either "satisfactory" or not, I would go 95% or more "not" just to make sure the client saw it. Brian G. Inform, Inform, Inform the Client [:-graduat

Originally posted by hausdok I know that others here have always said that anything past the disconnect must be considered a sub-panel, and I agree with that, it's just that I think that the connection between the two steel boxes via the conduit makes them essentially one box. I'm not aware of anything in the NEC to support that idea. The enclosures have to be bonded whether the second panel is 6 inches or 60 feet away, in all cases. That point is often lost in the popular oversimplification "nothing gets bonded in a sub panel". For instance: The electrician who installed it must have figured it was a sub too, because he's isolated the neutrals and grounds from one another and left the bonding strap disconnected. It shouldn't have been disconnected. It should have been bonded on the equipment ground bar. That enclosure could easily shock someone if a hot wire got loose and came in contact with it. Obviously, the idea of separation isn't new. Douglas says the "separation" rule goes back at least as far as the 1920's in the NEC. The "close by" idea is pure rot. He can't back that up with anything authoritative. Brian G. Da Rules R Da Rules [8]

You just never know. Weird. Brian G. Always a New Wrinkle []

Kyle, what's the status of the old lady? Did she make it? Kentucky, how wrong you are. [:-dunce] Brian G. And a Pack of Fools Shall Lead Them... [:-indiffe

Originally posted by msteger Gotta love the amount of outer sheathing all the way into the panel, too, in your photo. Ironically, that's probably what will to save the day with respect to the snipped off ground wires. I'll bet if he had stripped the outer jackets all the way back he would have cut the grounds off flush with wall of the enclosure. [] Brian G. If It's Good For Battleships, It Must Be Good For Houses? [:-boggled

Originally posted by Scottpat Makes it sound like the county is on the payroll of the Villages! AHJ's are often under political pressure from the county or city boards they work under. The Villages probably represents an enormous financial boost to that county, in terms of jobs, fees, and taxes. This could also be an AHJ who just hates HI's in general. I notice they don't cite any specific examples of HI's who made false claims about their wonderful "code compliant" construction, in either article. Don't forget that this rag almost certainly IS owned by The Villages. They can order up as many anti-HI articles as they want, under the thin, false veneer of "journalism". The fox is writing articles about how security is just fine around the hen house... [:-mischie Brian G. It Looks Like PR, It Smells Like PR, It Must Be PR [:-yuck]

Originally posted by Jim Katen Even if those guys were thieves, they were set up. The eyeliner was a deliberate deception, as were the outright lies that the homeowner told them. The cops do the exact same thing to "real" criminals all the time; drug and gun dealers, smugglers, and yes, even con men. It's 100% legal and the bad guys go to jail as a result. To say they were set up suggests they weren't doing anything wrong to start with. I beg to differ. They're frauds. They lie and steal for a living. They just do it in a grey area the law hasn't stepped into yet. Ask yourself this gentlemen. If you had been called out to look at the same situation, what would your advise to the homeowner have been? Rip out the whole bathroom? Or maybe just the vanity and the one wall behind it? Would you have immediately declared the mascara "toxic mold"? For most of you, I already know the answers. Most of you could not be "set up" for this kind of trap, because you aren't frauds; you don't make a living from lying and stealing. It was just lazy journalism. I'm sure it could have been done better, but it does help expose a national scam at thier local level. How is that wrong? Where is the often heard hue and cry for "educated consumers"? Brian G. Fraud Is Fraud [:-yuck]

I love it! The damn truth, there it is! Crooks and thieves, every last one of 'em, exploiting peoples ignorance and fear for a buck. If that isn't fraud, what the heck is it? I'm putting a link to that on my website tonight. Brian G. DDMG Charter Member [:-angel]

Obviously, cutting off the grounds is an act of pure ignorance. Bad move; gotta be fixed. Then you get right into the sub panel questions... Were there any continuous metallic pathways between the service disconnect and the buildings the sub panels were located in? Metal pipes, phone or TV cable lines, metal fences, concrete w/rebar, etc.? If so, they have some work left to do to make the subs right. Brian G. Grounds Are Not Optional Where Grounds Exist [:-magnify

I love my Skillers. The only thing I ever lost was a pocket screwdriver, in an attic. Nothing crushed yet, and I don't need a bigger one. To each his own. [:-mohawk] [] Brian G. H.I. = Highly Individual [^]

Someone wasn't afraid of color. Bless them. Brian G. Endless Neutrals Are Mind-Numbing [:-boggled

Originally posted by hausdok I heard from Douglas about this the other night. He's going to update his FPE paper to included the court developments and research that have been done since he first wrote it. Outstanding. Can someone send it to the KY board members, just so they can't say "We never saw this"? Brian G. Address It To "Your Ignorance"

Originally posted by sepefrio Just curious as I'm not sure how these boards really work, but is it possible to sue them? I know thats a lot of money, just asking. It's generally true that you cannot sue the individual who works for a government entity, but you usually can sue the entity. Activists have a long history of doing just that. If you wanted to attack that way: tell everyone how bad FPE is, make sure they know you're doing it, hope they take action against you, then sue and drag them into open court where you can expose them. All of which would be expensive, but probably effective. Brian G. Justice Ain't Cheap [8]

Surely the push for that came from the RE sales team. Who else would have a motive to silence good HI's on this issue? Sellers may not like it, but I can't imagine them actually getting together to exert influence on the board. And don't forget this is the same state that tries to keep its HI's from talking about code. Morons. Brian G. Nuts On a Board...Where's My Hammer? [:-censore

That was a hell of a game. Brian G. Gotta Love Monday Nights [:-footbal

My boys just threw the division away. Can anyone explain that double reverse call to me? Why? Oh well, that's the breaks. We still have an outside shot at a wildcard, but we're not really going anywhere this year. The defense is no better than last year and the offense is less consistant. Hopefully management and coaching will get their heads together in the offseason and improve things. We'll see. Boy, do we miss Duece McAllister. Brian G. Please, Spend Our Picks and Money on DEFENSE!!! [:-crazy]

"While this isn't the youngest house in the area, you have to admire its endurance! Sure, some remodeling will be needed, but who wants a house that looks the way the last couple left it anyway, eh? Budget for a new roof and monitor the stone walls." Bucketheads-R-Us Home Inspection [:-dopey] Brian G. Real Estate Novelist [^]

3rd degree burns... She's lucky to survive the fire, but that has to be one of the worst possible injuries a person can suffer. I worked with a guy who had those on both arms from a house fire. His descriptions of the recovery process and the agony involved would make any normal person cringe. The poor old dear. Kyle, I know this may not be possible, but a photo of the fried breaker box would be very compelling in combination with the report, assuming it is what they think it is. We'll all be eager to see the report. Brian G. FPE Hater [:-yuck]

Ahhhhh, Prarie style. Sturdy, practical, and unassuming. Brian G. My Kind of House [:-thumbu]

It's a good, if ugly, win for the Bears. I can't believe Denver kicked to Hester. That's just dumb. I can see not wanting to kick out of bounds on the kickoffs, the rules make that approach unworkable, but on punts?!? If I were coaching against the Bears I'd never, ever punt to him. [:-dunce] Brian G. Play With Fire, Get Burned [:-hot]

Originally posted by pete moss name is as real as chad fabry Then kindly fill out your profile to the point where one can confirm who you are, as Chad and the rest of us have long since done. Until then you're just a heckler standing back in the shadows. Brian G. Hecklers Contribute Nothing [:-taped]

I hear reports of inspectors who compromise disclosure for the sake of agent referrals, but in my experience such inspectors are rare. Most home inspectors are painfully aware of the legal and financial liability associated with incomplete disclosure and are unwilling to take such risks for fraudulent short-term gains. What planet is he speaking of???? Brian G. Gimme a Break [:-censore