kurt Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 This supplied the garage; there is no panel in the garage, just these wires going into a 4x4 box, w/pulls to switches & outlets. The green wire tied to the neutral is rather strange, no? I have no idea why they did this. Besides the wire that's not approved for UV exposure, how stupid is this? Download Attachment: garage masthead.JPG 36.69 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Download Attachment: KurtsGarageFeeder.jpg 159.18 KB Here's a cleaned up picture. If there's just one circuit, the garage doesn't need a panel. But it does need a disconnect switch - a snap switch is fine. Of course, if there's a metal path between the buildings the feeder needs a fourth wire. Since there's no fourth wire, the garage should have it's own grounding electrode. I suppose the green wire connected to the neutral is ok. It's got to connect to it somewhere and, without a panel, it makes sense to do it there. Those smaller wires look like THHN or THHW. Neither is supposed to be exposed to sunlight. Any conductor that's exposed to direct sunlight is supposed to be marked as being sunlight resistant. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randynavarro Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Perhaps they were planning on putting a "real" panel in the garage and then changed their minds (or ran out of money) at the last minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 What size is the overcurrent protection at the house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 20 amp. The metal path thing is what made me curious. Would the neutral strain relief cable be considered a metal path? I mean, it is a metal path, after all(?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomas1 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Looks like wirenuts under the tape - they may not be listed for that combination of wire sizes. Also, how tall is that mast, and how is the lower end secured to/in the garage? (I KNOW you checked, but that's a question that comes to mind looking at the photo...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 It brings to mind an old 3-slot clothes dryer plug where they've joined the neutral and grounding conductors on one terminal. A 3-wire cable to a separate building is allowed, using the neutral as the grounding conductor, only when there is only one circuit and when there are no other continuous metal pathways between the buildings such as water piping, a concrete sidewalk, metal fence, telephone line, etc. Any other metal pathways and it should have had it's own grounding electrode and one of those other paths may be used as such. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Originally posted by kurt 20 amp. The metal path thing is what made me curious. Would the neutral strain relief cable be considered a metal path? I mean, it is a metal path, after all(?). That wire *is* the neutral. It doesn't count. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm a little confused about all the talk of a fourth wire. Isn't this just a single 120-volt circuit feed? It's certainly screwed up with the exposed THNN, and who knows how it's connected at the other end, but don't we have enough conductors for that purpose. I think Randy hit the nail on the head. Planned a real panel and "temporarily" connected 120-volt power. Needs fixin one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Hi Richard, The talk of a four wire cable has to do only with the need for a sub-panel. According to Hansen, if it's only a single circuit and there are no other metal pathways between the two buildings, a 3-wire cable, using the neutral as the EGC, is fine. However, if there are any other conductive pathways, even something as small as a telephone line, then it should have it's own grounding electrode. That's why Hansen says the use of a 4-wire cable is preferred. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Hi Mike, OK. I do understand the requirements for a 3 and 4 wire sub-panel installation in a separate building (and even why the 4-wire is the preferred method), it was just that, looking at the wires, it looks like only a 120-volt feed. But it does bring up another question I'm not sure about if they complete the 3-wire installation of a 240-volt panel in the garage using the existing overhead conductors. Let's assume proper grounding at the garage and no metallic path. It's normal for the utility comany to use a bare grounded conductor (with strain relief) in their 3-wire feed to a home's mast-head feeding the meter and service equipment. But...even with insulators at the strain relief, is it allowable to use a bare grounded (neutral) conductor as an overhead "feeder" to a sub-panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Hi Richard, I'm not Mike, but I do know that ALUMINUM in conduits must always be insulated. If the neutral through conduit is copper, then it is allowed. Originally posted by Richard Moore Hi Mike, OK. I do understand the requirements for a 3 and 4 wire sub-panel installation in a separate building (and even why the 4-wire is the preferred method), it was just that, looking at the wires, it looks like only a 120-volt feed. But it does bring up another question I'm not sure about if they complete the 3-wire installation of a 240-volt panel in the garage using the existing overhead conductors. Let's assume proper grounding at the garage and no metallic path. It's normal for the utility comany to use a bare grounded conductor (with strain relief) in their 3-wire feed to a home's mast-head feeding the meter and service equipment. But...even with insulators at the strain relief, is it allowable to use a bare grounded (neutral) conductor as an overhead "feeder" to a sub-panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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