Richard Moore

Ahhh, I did find the "other forum" discussion. http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_insp ... eaker.html I eventually posted the e-mail reply from Eaton (Cutler-Hammer) at the 19th post.

Maybe I'm mis-reading the chart you've posted, but it looks to me as if the 15-amp breaker is the only one that's rated for two wires. As I read it, the 20-, 25- and 30-amp breakers are rated for only a single wire #14-#6. - Jim Katen, Oregon Hi Jim... I've been down this road before with a certain individual on another forum. I was certain I was right but, to finally convince him, I ended up getting and posting confirmation direct from the horse's (manufacturer) mouth. The upshot is that you don't read it that way. ALL wire size ranges within a row's box apply to ALL amperages within that boxed row. Look at the 40 thru 150 amp breakers. If you read it your way then 50-amp breakers can only take 3/0 wire! To reitterate...all 10 thru 30 amp, type CH, 1 and 2 pole breakers are listed for (1) #14-8 or (2) 14-10s. (All 10-30, 3 poles are listed for (1) #14-6) I agree that it's a little confusing, but it doesn't make sense if you just read straight across for each amperage. I can't seem to find the damn e-mail right now, so you'll have to trust me, or you could contact Cutler Hammer yourself. But, on this one at least, I know I'm right.

Neal...I think that "10" is only how many are in a shelf display box. I'd presume the price is Cutler Hammer's suggested retail list per single breaker. I don't know that I'd trust a $2 breaker!!!

Image Insert: 92.32 KB Cutler Hammer lists all current CH type breakers, 10 thru 30 amp, one and two pole, for 2 #14-#10 conductors. Obviously, you can't actually use 2 #14s on a 30-amp breaker, but the terminals are identical on that range of amperages and are "listed" the same. No doubles on GFCIs.

John, I've not heard of the feezing issue before, but I could see how that could be a problem. Another issue in those tight quarters would be that you are "re-using" some air that has already been used for combustion and I'd expect the O2 content to be somewhat lower, which could lead to "less than optimum" subsequent combustion. I dunno how significant that drop in performance would be, but it would be a simple fix...so why not? One other thing is that I suspect that A/C unit is going to rust out much faster with the moist (acidic?) exhaust blowing directly onto it. I'd recommend turning the exhaust upwards...but not with an additional elbow, which would create a trap.

Mini vacation...not an inspection. The wife's aunt has a very nice place here, complete with guest house. Sod roofs, so good thing I'm not working. Would have to mow to get a good look! Views to die for. Later. I have to go relax and read a book.

I'm sitting in a chair on a mountainside on Orcas staring out over the San Juan islands typing this on my new toy...um, I mean worktool...an Iphone. Just too cool! Has anyone else succumbed?

"And FWIW, once you start your business, you're gonna catch heat and/or blame for all kinds of stuff, most of it undeserved." LOL...yep! Case in point last week. About 9:00 pm I get a call from the buyer's agent saying the listing agent had just called him. Evidently the homeowners had arrived home and found the faucet at the bathroom sink dripping and they couldn't get it to shut off completely. Supposedly, they were "livid" and accusing me of either forcing the faucets past their 1/4 turn stops or taking the damn things apart. I had done neither of course and I know they weren't leaking or dripping when I left (or I would have reported it). Had my clients done something while I was elsewhere in the house? Had other agents and potential buyers visited the home in between the inspection and the homeowners returning? Doesn't matter. Even though I'm probably the least likely person to screw up a faucet, it's just gotta be my fault because I was the last one on record to be there. A couple of calls later, to the listing agent and then the homeowners and it was all smoothed out. The husband had already fixed the "problem" and no one actually seemed "livid". So no big deal in this case, other than annoyance at being automatically blamed for something I didn't do. Comes with the job!

Going from the condition of the wires beneath and the pitting at the top pole of the breaker, I'm guessing that it is/was from constant arcing from a poor or loose connection of that top purple conductor. Or arcing between the two larger purples. Not exactly sure what caused it but such arcing would produce the localized heat but wouldn't trip the breaker. Maybe they have since been re-secured, but they shouldn't have simply been left in that condition. That breaker is an "integral" part of the heat-pump isn't it? In this case it's acting more as a service shut-off than an overload device. I don't believe the wire sizes inside an appliance always correspond to our conception of "the right size" for a circuit breaker. Smaller wires often split off from the main feeds once in an appliance and are "protected" by the limited draw of whatever they are connecetd to. You would also expect to see more uniform "browning" if the smaller wires were that overloaded. I'll stick with my arcing theory. Time for sparky or the HVAC guy.

If it's loose rockwool, there's no history that I find, or have heard of, that it would contain asbestos. It's a spun material, not mined, so there wouldn't be any natural contamination. I have read about asbestos lined rockwool blankets, but not sure where they are normally found and that doesn't sound like "bags of rockwool". Similarly, no history of 60's gypsum board or sheetrock itself containing asbestos BUT the joint compound might. As for "do-it-yourself asbestos sampling kits"? As far as I know, the only "do-it-yourself" bit is collecting the samples which then have to be sent to an acredited lab. That is unless each DIY kit comes complete with a very powerful microscope! If you have concerns, I suggest you first contact a certfied, licensed lab in your area and see what they suggest you sample.

These lines kind of jump out at you... "The home inspector and builder are not responsible for code enforcement, and the lack of weep holes is not, by itself, a major defect. It is the responsibility of the subcontractors, such as the plumber, electrician and brick mason, to perform their work according to the codes in effect...." So he seems to be saying that the builder can hire the cheapest subs he can find and then wash his hands of any responsibility for their shoddy work. What ever happened to "The buck stops here"? And he also seems to imply that the inspector is supposed to just ignore anything not built to normal standards??? It sure would make for a very skinny report on a new house. Something along the lines of... "I found all sorts of things that were screwed up but I'm not going to mention them because it's not my job. If you discover them later then you should take it up with the sub-contractors, if you can find them. The end." Would "Wow!!!" be an appropriate response?

Make note to self... Randy does mobile homes. Forward all requests for same to him. [] I did one once early in my second year. Did a bunch of research, even made a special check list for it. POS!!! It was like inspecting a 30 year old Yugo, and one in poor condition for its age. Never since and never again. Just say no!

OK...I guess I'll be the "mean old guy". After seeing the photo someone has to say something. Ed, please don't take this the wrong way but, if you can't recognize and describe a common 100-amp service, and don't know whether they "make a 200a panel box", I have to suggest that you gain some more education and/or do some ride-alongs with an experienced inspector. It's good that you asked and I certainly don't want to disuade you from asking further questions here, but it's also clear that your knowledge on a major safety component of a home inspection is sorely lacking. I'm hoping this was just a test inspection?

Here's a fun one from an apartment in a 1928 co-op building. Open the panel door and you are faced with this.... Image Insert: 106.19 KB 4 fused neutral 15 amp circuits (5 if you count the double tap), 40-amp 240 for the range, and lots of nasty exposed bits to electrocute you. My first fused neutrals! I'm a proud papa! Out of town client buying it for his son while he attends the UW. I gotta believe he will be concerned about the safety issues. Cool old building though...steam heat, common hot water, etc, etc. Image Insert: 112.8 KB

FYI, although the link shows up as if it is a current article, it was actually from August 11, 2005. It might be a bit late to send him comments. There is a subsequent article two weeks after... http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/2005082 ... nspect.htm I guess he did get some mail. The second is a little better but he's still advising the listing agent should be present. The last time I had a listing agent present (when the buyer had their own agent) I had to ask her to leave. The lady turned up halfway through the inspection and for the next 15 or 20 minutes didn't stop talking. Nothing to do with the house...just mindless blabbering. My clients were being polite, but it was obvious they wanted to concentrate on the inspection. I eventually took the agent aside and explained that she was making it difficult for me to discuss my confidential findings with my clients. She seemed a little surprised...I think she actually thought she was being helpful...but left with no argument. Is it common for listing agents to be present in other parts of the country? It sure ain't around here. As for the report...if the client has a buyers agent (the norm around here) I do always ask if they would like me to CC the link. Most say yes but if I don't have that permission I leave it up to them to forward the link, if they wish to do so. I've never been asked to provide a copy to the seller or the listing agent. I'm sure that some eventually get a copy, but that's out of my hands and I can't say it concerns me.

That particular lock-off can be used both ways but, unless there was someone in an iron lung in the house, it's purpose is most likely to serve as "a breaker capable of being locked off". That's the NEC language for an alternative to a disconnect "within sight" of some appliances. In other words, it's there to protect the service guy.

Just a guess, but they may have also had reverse polarity when they first hooked up the 3 prong outlet to the old wiring. Then bootlegged the now live "neutral" side to the ground and, through the fastening screws, to the metal j-box. Probably was quite spectacular when they first turned the breaker back on. Or could be something completely different!

Perhaps a simple change of his everday transportion would solve the problem. Image Insert: 106.2 KB Anyone know what sort of mileage these get?

Just out of curiosity... Has anyone ever had an AFCI breaker that didn't trip with the test button?

"You can't with out lifting the lock off out the way right?" I'm not sure on that Chris. There is some initial angle to the toggle and it might flip itself out of the way. I can't say I have ever tried it. Next time I see one.....

"Will Square D breakers still trip properly if the breaker lock off devices are set like this?" Yes...they trip internally. You can't "lock" the breaker on so that an overload won't trip it. Think about an AFCI breaker. When you trip it with the test button it goes to the mid point. You can push the toggle back to the "On" position but it remains tripped. You have to reset the mechanism by turning it all the way off before you can turn it on again. It's the same with any modern residential breaker. As for the position of the lock-out. It's just the way it sits flat and out of the way when not in use. It's not actually locked without a padlock through the hole. I don't think what you have pictured is a reportable concern.

"I told him I still felt it was improper, and recommended evaluation by a licensed electrician." The simple fact is that, between this and the garage panel, the #8(?) wires are only "protected" by the 200-amp disconnect. Also, of course, those terminals aren't rated for the double tap...even if it was somehow, otherwise OK. It doesn't need evaluation. It needs repair!

Just a guess of course, but I (make that someone else) might be looking for a crimp in the buried supply line.(?)

Aha...that old "regional difference" thing. We don't close our crawlspace vents in the winter around here. Is that typical winterization in Illinois...does everyone remember to do it...and how?

Yes, it would be...but what Jim was pointing out is that if all the GFCI receptacles you can find in the kitchen are tripped (test button or ST), and you still have power at some other kitchen receptacles, and you can't trip those with the ST (or any GFCI tester), you can be 99.99% certain they are not connected to a GFCI device in the kitchen or elsewhere.