Richard Moore

I guess anything is possible, but 120 only sure seems unlikely, even in Noth Dakota. Jodi, next time you get a chance, snap a photo or two of the service drop, mast, etc on one of these.

Obviously no math wizards here! I came up with 19 years for a 1987, 21 year old home. [:-dunce] Fortunately, Mike outdid me by another year.

That's a can of worms with no simple answer, especially without knowing the service size, the size of the house, and what type of appliances are there. Let's say it an average size house though. First scenario is easy. If the furnace is electric, then should be no problem. The A/C will draw less than the furnace and both won't be on at the same time. Is there room in the panel for another double-pole breaker? Beyond that you really are into doing load calculations for the definitive answer. Most of us don't do those. But...let's say you have gas heat, but everything else is electric...range, water heater, dryer etc. Adding A/C would be pushing the limits of a 125-amp service but a 200-amp should be fine. If the range and water heater are gas, then 125-amp may be fine. BIG BUT: But that's only a very rough guideline and not something I suggest you actually use to determine future adequacy, something you'd be best staying away from declaring. Frankly, if you are not comfortable with this, and obviously you aren't, but have committed yourself, I can only suggest you pay a sparky for 1/2 hour of his time. BTW... "Just so you know, most homes here have 120/240 V service.." A garden shed or detached shack might only have 120-volt, but I'm sure you'll find ALL homes have 120/240 service.

The only ones I've ever had that didn't come on immediately were older units that seemed to struggle against years of built-up grime to get going, and then weakly. I can't say for sure that there aren't units with a built-in delay but it really doesn't make much sense for the application. If you were using it to clear odors, you might be out of the bathroom before it came on and then, it would still be on after you left. Were they controlled by timers or regular switches? If they are the original, 19 year old units, I'd first suspect they need replacement.

Took me a while to find this. I believe I've only seen 3 or 4 of them. Anyway, here's one with the valve plumbed. (crappy wiring connection) Image Insert: 125.84 KB

Hi Brian, This from Rinnai. My bold. INSTALLER’S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS Pressure Relief Valve 1) ANSI code calls for the addition of an approved pressure relief valve to all water heating systems. 2) The pressure relief valve must meet the following criteria: The relief valve must comply with the standard for Relief Valves and Automatic Gas Shutoff Devices for Hot Water Supply Systems ANSI Z21. 22 and/or the standard CAN1-4.4 Temperature, Pressure, Temperature and Pressure Relief Valves and Vacuum Relief Valves. This relief valve must be rated up to 150 PSI of pressure. 3) The relief valve should be added to the hot water outlet line per manufacturer's instructions. DO NOT place any other type valve or shut off device between the relief valve and the hot water heater. 4) The discharge from the pressure relief valve should be piped to the ground or into a drain system to prevent exposure or possible burn hazards to humans or other plant or animal life. Water discharged from the relief valve could cause severe burns instantly, scalds and/or death. 5) Do not plug the relief valve and do not install any reducing fittings or other restrictions in the relief line. The relief line should allow for complete drainage of the valve and the line. 6) If a relief valve discharges periodically, this may be due to thermal expansion in a closed water supply system. Contact the water supplier or local plumbing inspector on how to correct this situation. Do not plug the relief valve. 7) Pressure relief valve must be manually operated once a year to check for correct operation. Caution: See Item 4 before manually operating relief valve. Should overheating occur or the gas supply fail to shut off, turn off the manual gas valve on the Rinnai.

Our next boat will be 70-80ft long, around 100 years old and made of steel or iron. Something along the lines of this one... Download Attachment: imagine1.jpg 138.57 KB A converted, liveaboard, dutch barge for cruising the European canal/waterway system. It's probably about 4 or 5 years away, but is our plan for slightly early retirement. I might get to do some woodwork on the interior but, as I won't be able to ship my workshop over there, we are actually hoping to find one that is already set up the way we want it. And yes, we will have room for nice guests.

Kurt and Bill...nice work. Especially the canoe. I love the look of those types of wood boat but never tried my hand at it. Unfortunately, most of my "portfolio" predated my first digital camera and is lying loose as photos in a shoebox, now buried somewhere in the house after the remodel. I did have some scanned but, evidently, I didn't bother copying that folder when I changed computers a year or so ago. One day I'll dig them out, re-scan some, and have a show and tell with y'all.

Milk-out-the-nose funny, Randy! Thanks.

LOL Jim...I do know how, but I used to be a professional woodworker (custom furniture and cabinetry). Just too time consuming plus very, very tough with some of the more exotic hardwoods I used to use. I may be an old fashioned curmudgeon, but I do like my power tools. But while we are on hand tools, I can also highly recommend a good quality shoulder plane for final tenon adjustment. I have an older Record, which I don't think is made anymore. The Lie-Nelson large is very similar ( http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=518 ). Not the first plane you should own, but you'll fall in love the first time you use it.

I hate to poo-poo yet another new gadget as it actually looks like a decent system, but I have to agree with Kurt as far as shelves (or cabinet sides) go. The dominos would be overkill in those situations and, as they wouldn't have the fudge factor that biscuits do, the set-up would have to be extremely precise. And then, for most other applications such as table rails or good face frames I would still prefer the strength of a good mortise and tenon joint. I'm going to assume you have a decent, cabinet grade, table saw, so making repetitive tenons should be no problem. I now use a Delta tenon jig (see http://www.toolmarts.com/del_34-183.html ) although I used to manage fine without one. I drill my mortises with a dedicated hollow chisel mortiser (see http://store.all-cordless.com/dehochmomm.html ). Only around $250 although you can convert a regular drill press much cheaper. I dunno Mike...for around $350 you can get a good mortise and tenon set-up. I'm just not sure where I would use the Festool and, at $800 bucks or so, I could probably find something more useful for the shop.

"This forum is suffering from curmudgeonitis...." Brandon, I'd like to think it was healthy skepticism but, after re-reading my last few posts, I think you might be right. I do seem to have caught something and developed an allergic reation to change! Do you know if curmudgeonitis is one of those new-fangled deseases that's not as good as the old ones?

hmmm... The tank is warrantied not to leak as long as you own the home...probably not transferrable to a new buyer. I know nothing about these (good or bad) but the above hardly seems like a "lifetime warranty". I would imagine that the power to heat up cold water would be about the same as a "regular" heater so the efficiency would seem to be mostly from the improved insulation for when the hot water is just standing there unused. So...how long will it take to recoup the extra initial expense? Sorry...no idea, but if you plan on staying in the home for longer than the lifespan of one regular heater I can see the benefit. That is, as long as the "6-year" parts don't need to be constantly replaced. For our benefit I say go ahead, and then please report back to us in, say, about 12 years?

I don’t know the actual history behind them, but I’m sure it wasn’t the original intent of the 6-throw rule, which I believe was to ensure a reasonable number of disconnects grouped together in one place to allow quick service disconnect. I suspect it went as follows… Some bright spark at FPE or Zinsco, or whichever company did it first, read the rule and had an “Eurekaâ€

"Nothing is to be gained by continuance". Agreed...and locked.

Probably not a good idea where you are Kurt. Both have really low front clearance and would plow any snow over a 2-3 inches. As I live halfway up a steep ridge, and our local snow prep seems to consist solely of pre-positioned "Road Closed" signs, I can't even get out of the neighborhood after a heavy snow-fall. Unfortunately, that only happens about once every couple of years. I say unfortunately, 'cos I love the quiet and fun it brings. Download Attachment: snowboat.jpg 93.47 KB

Well...without actually delving into my IRC... No way you can add a step on top of those CMUs and maintain an even rise. The step down from the front door would be OK only if the landing was 3ft deep and it doesn't look like it. The plain concrete upper step is different enough (no lip) that it probably breaks the rules for uniformity. Handrail. Oh...and that's some ugly brickwork either side of the entrance...(buried weepholes?).

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This whole thread seems to be going nowhere fast, has nothing new or of interest or educational value, and is only serving as rather smelly bait that might eventually lure the truly obnoxious into our midst for a bout of schoolyard name calling. Fortunately, I don't often feel the need to wield my moderator's stick in this forum, and usually resist when I do. Hell, I'm reluctant to do so even now because some will whine or even accuse me of bias (for the record; I'm not in anyone's damn club). BUT...I know I was asked to moderate in order to keep this particular section reasonably civil and I'd be neglecting my duties to just ignore it. So...would any of our "constructive" regulars really mind if I deleted this whole mess before it degenerates further? Or at least locked it?

John, it looks like that ground may be touching the mounting "tray", but that is nowhere near the hot bus. See the photo below of a smaller, but similar, CH panel. From your photo, I'd say no problem. Image Insert: 53.85 KB

Mike...I'm fairly sure it should be #6 Al for a full 40-amp load. BUT...I suspect that's the AC with the conductors sized by the data plate, and probably OK. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen that sort of SEC entering a service panel with the bare wrap used for the neutral. My gray matter tells me that there isn't anything wrong with the set-up but it always has me doing a double-take. If Jim says it's OK, that's good enough for me. So...now I'm left wondering what John and his electrician were disagreeing about. You out there John?

Scratch that! I blew up the photo a bit more and it's one black with white stripes...not two black wires. Not color blind...just short sighted!

John...at quick glance I see a couple of concerns: One is that, unless I'm color blind, there seems to be a couple of black conductors connected to the bottom of the right ground/neutral bar. Do we know what they are for? The second, and maybe more important, is the two-pole 40-amp breaker (2nd down at left) appears to be wired with undersized solid strand aluminum. Oh yeah...there is the lack of an insulated grounded/neutral feed. Unusual, but I'm not so sure that would be wrong in this particular case or not. Is that 4/0 SE cable?

I might change that "whenever" to "most times". Had a 1920's beauty the other day. Updated in the 60's with a nice Zinsco panel, completely inaccessible behind an entertainment center. Still lots of KT (much buried) but all of the new wiring, attic and crawl, was as in the photos. There are some times you can trust the tester. [:-crazy] Download Attachment: 080220H055x.jpg 86.68 KB Download Attachment: 080220H060x.jpg 137.54 KB Download Attachment: 080220H115x.jpg 158.82 KB

Randy, Once you had the cover plate off it would have been very easy to check the ground with a multi-meter or a wiggy. One probe in the hot hole (technical term) and the other on the grounding screw (as you said the grounding wire was attached). If it indicated line voltage, then that would lead me to suspect worn out contacts at the receptacle itself. No voltage would be a loose connection in the grounding wiring somewhere "upstream". If you use a multi-meter and had another nearby receptacle within reach of your leads that tested OK, you could also check continuity between the grounds...but the first test should tell you all you need to report.