mgbinspect

Yeah, I am tempted to conclude that it's a material defect, but then, I have never seen it happen on a horizontal run - only stacks. There's got to be some fascinating explanation like maybe a lightning strike! Or, the compounding of weight of the pipes directed into the connections - like a wedge? Something....

Wheee!!!!... Trap and larger sub-trap. Maybe a NASA philosophy - redundancy?

That'll work... in fact, I kinda like that scenario.. The most difficult part would be mustering up the, "Gosh I'm sorry, it just got away from me." [^]

Replacement in this application just seems like a ton of work with no appreciable return or reward other than some form of satisfaction...

What causes cast iron to fail in this manner anyway? I've never seen it anywhere but in stacks. Is it a material defect from the start that just takes years to manifest itself?

Well, plumbing materials use and configuration certainly isn't one of my strong points, but what the heck this may be a dumb question. Since it has a pretty easy life just exchanging a little air now and then, is there an acceptable permanent way to repair or reline it? I know they reline underground drain lines now with PVC or a similar meterial, which would probably be too pricey here. Just thowing it out there as a brainstorming measure. I mean, being in the attic, is that a reasonable consideration or is there some good reason, other than aesthitics, why a well designed patch is out of the question here?... [:-wiltel]

There is an architect in the Philly area, who has a similar energy efficient home that occassionally receives a credit from the power company. In his case, he readily admits that he was obsessed with the goal and could never recover the expense of some of the measures he took to get to that level of energy efficiency. His home is impressive. He runs a pretty in depth online and classroom energy audit course - the best I've seen anyway and it is the third course I'm working my way through. He encourages interactive customer education and service with a follow-up system, as opposed to merely handing an energy audit customers a report and walking away forever. You can also register on his site and receive pretty cool industry updates and nice insightful and educational handouts to offer your clients. His site is www.GREENANDSAVE.com and well worth stopping by and perusing.

I typically will mention the value of a good ceiling fan in large vaulted rooms just to keep air moving and mixing. Awesome home Mongo. I want one...

This is indeed a tough subject. During my entire career I've never bashed a fellow local home inspector. When in the presence of others (Reators, homebuyers and other HIs) bashing a home inspector I typically hold my tongue unless the inspector in question is one that I know and highly respect - then I'll offer my positive opinion of their abilities and work. I DO, however, have a very low tolerance for conceit, which is to me enough to make me leave a room as quickly as possible. I suppose I figure since we ALL live in glass houses, as soon as I bash someone, I'll do something incredibly stupid. I don't know anything about Mr. Holmes at all other than what is being posted here, but conceit is always a challenge to endure because the sub-conscious message is always the same - everyone else is inferior...

I honestly don't know about the adhesive, as I've never seen it pulled apart, but I do seem to recall that the sheets were indeed installed at 90 degrees. It was always mentioned as that "extra mile" practice of upscale builders. Of course, it isn't practiced any longer, so I suppose it didn't prove to be worth the effort. Thanks for the input.

Nope, this happened about 8 year ago. I was afraid to so much as touch it. But once I pointed it out, the agent and buyer could see how unbelievably sagged it was. I have no idea what had kept it from falling sooner. I can't imagine any fasteners more than 3 feet in from the perimeter were even touching the ceiling joists. It was shocking and I didn't hang around in that room long. Nonetheless, I don't think anyone accepted the urgency of the condition and thought I was overstating the case until the selling agent called later that same evening to inform me that it did fall down. I spent 6 years cleaning up those messes and making it look like it never happened. It was pretty obvious to me that angels alone were holding that ceiling up. I'm no fortune teller and certainly did not expect it to fail that very day. I just knew it was a ticking time bomb that could kill someone. She lived alone. Now maybe she messed with it with a broom stick or something after we left. Who knows.. At any rate, is anyone familiar with laminated drywall ceilings?

A touch of the Savior complex maybe?.. Of course he can only act like this if he feels he's as close to perfect as they come..

For a period of time here in Richmond, it was considered the ultimate to use two layers of 3/8" dryall for ceilings (around the late 40's to early 50's I think), which I'm interested to hear from someone who know why it was supposed to be so nice. At any rate, I was inspecting a home with this system and the ceiling was about to fail completely. It was sagged in the center several inches and obviously being held up by the perimeter. I cautioned the 80+ year old lady that she needed to address this condition immediately. She went on about how she had lived there for 40 years and I didn't know what I was talking about. As soon as the inspection was over, she went to the grocery store. When she returned she opened the front door to discover the living room ceiling had indeed come crashing down while she was gone. Had she been in the room it probably would have killed her. I've heard of this double layer of drywall when a mat for radiant heat is between the layers, but does anyone know why the two layer ceiling was supposed to be so Cadillac even if radiant heat was present?

I see. That makes sense.

But, long rectangular patterns of maybe 18" +/- by six to eight feet are usually the tip off that it's rock lath while patterns closer to square tend to be wood lath. That's my experience anyway...

I'm no familiar with the term, Chad. What is rIven lath? School me...

Tom is closer to the mark. This is so typical in Richmond's old row houses and inner city homes, with wood lath plaster finishes, from the late 1800s and early 1900s. My theory is that this is the result of the three coats of plaster finally coming apart from being dry as dust and dealing with the slow but constant movement of an old brick masonry foundation and footing. The pattern, as already mentioned, telegraphs the square sheets of wood lath. When I had to make repairs to these old plaster walls, as a disaster restoration contractor, it became apparent that typically the scratch coat was breaking apart right at the surface of the wood lath. The plaster is usually reinforced with horse hair or some other flexible strand material so it remains pretty strong in spite of this slow progressive failure. As I would remove the plaster, the keys of the scratch coat would fall through and back behind the lath as the horse hair let loose of them. The bond between the scratch coat and brown coat tends to remain impressively in tact. The skim coat may be slightly loose as well. Rapping on it with a key and listening for the same sound that reveals loose ceramic tile is usually telling. Usually, if moisture intrusion is involved, the surface will also have bubbly efflorescence on the surface along with stains and cracks. In essence, this is a pretty typical condition for a home with old wood lath plaster.

Touché Jim! I love it - not only the correction, but the thought that went into the conclusion! I'm addicted to learning and have been for decades. It never really matters to me how it comes about, be it study, discussion, bantering, or even being proven to be flat out wrong. I wrote it two years ago and I'm happy to write it again: If the price of an education is to be proven wrong, the outcome is still worth it. Had I not been so ardently convinced I was right, would we have ever arrived at a definitive answer like what you've brought to the table? Thanks for taking me to school. What's really funny though is a quick search of the web reveals that even among journalists this particular rule is hotly contested and inconclusive with some journalists actually challenging Strunk & White. http://ask.metafilter.com/21238/is-none-singular And then according to Perrin Smith Corder "none" falls into a small list of "indefinite pronouns" of which they state: "None" may be either singular or plural, depending upon the context. In current usage it is commonly used with a plural verb, but Formal usage still prefers a singular verb unless the meaning is clearly plural. None of the national parks 'is' more scenic than Glacier. None of the charges 'has' been proved. None of the new homes are as well constructed as the homes built twenty-five years ago. [The sentance clearly refers to all new homes.] The emphatic 'no one' is always singular: I looked at a dozen books on the subject, but no one was of any use to me. Apparently, the subject is such a hair splitter - a bottomless pit even among professionals, and no one will question the use of either way accept the most refined journalists on the planet. So, this may be an "if it feels good" kinda choice. Well, that was interesting! Glad that's behind us...

Excellent! It's hard to imagine any reputable company teeing up a system that isn't thoroughly tested and proven to perform. In spite of the varying passionate opinions here, it's pretty much a no brainer that those experiencing problems are suffering from a poor installation. I find it rather depressing to, day after day, see an endless string of careless minor deficiencies that all add up to a poorly performing system. For instance, if I had a nickel for every time I see an air handler that is missing the rubber bushings that surround and seal the opening where the refrigerant line penetrates the coil cabinet, I'd be a millionaire. HVAC contractors will even discount the concern as insignificant. Yet, put a slit in a drinking straw and see how much liquid you get. Air is going to travel the path of least resistance and a hole in the system is an easy path. Nothing like trying to heat or cool your home with crawl space, eave or attic air. I see this particular condition even when the seller tells me that the HVAC contractor was out the day before to service the system just for the home inspection. In fact, a few weeks ago a poor seller had their system serviced before the home inspection and the central return duct was detached and laying on the crawl space floor leaving the central return register completely open to the crawl space. It's pretty bewildering. Usually the problem isn't the mechanics, but the installation (the system doesn't suck, the installer does).

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You are right, Gary. "In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." Such is life...

In fact, since "infractions" is the subject, it should not even matter if it is "none" or "all"!

"None" is a modifier - in this case "not one of" the subject - "infractions" (which is plural). So, the easiest test is to set aside the modifier, resulting in "the infractions have (or have not)" Have appears to be grammatically correct. Usually in tough situations strip the sentence to bare bone essentials and it becomes easier to decide. To take the test to an even simpler level, eliminate the type of plural subject "infractions" and replace it with the plural pronoun "they" or "them" "None of them have been..."

Thanks Bill, Either it's the first time I've seen it or I'm suffering from senility, and at 58, senility isn't out of the realm of possibility?.. [:-viking]

Bless you sir!

Scott, as I said the male / female fittings really visually resembled electrical conduit because one fit within the other so deeply with no threads. It felt heavier than central vacuum pipe, but certainly no heavier than typical PVC drain line - maybe even slightly lighter? So, based upon the "DWV" it's pretty safe to assume it's an appropriate material for the use? This was the typical mid-sixties country house - a patchwork quilt of various materials...