kurt

$10-12k is kind of a benchmark around here too.

The pic Kiel posted is a beautifully finished crawl. Running the VB up the piers (moisture migrates through concrete like a sponge), no joist cavity insulation, perimeter finished with insulation panels, conditioned, done. Joist cavity insulation does very little to effect heating; it's another of those ingrained habits, aided by building codes that have just about everything related to insulation and ventilation wrong. Removing the joist cavity insulation and insulating the perimeter of the area allows capturing all that lovely free geothermal heat emanating from your crawlspace floor. I'm betting the crawlspace would be warmer, not cooler, by taking Kiel's recommendations. As an example, my >90 year old bungalow had 1st fl. platform joist cavity insulation, and nothing in the basement perimeter; in winter, you could sometimes see your breath down there. I ripped out all the joist cavity insulation, insulated the perimeter with 2"XPS foam (the pink or blue stuff) from the basement floor to the 1st fl. platform subfloor, then installed a thermal barrier of 5/8" drywall over the foam. The basement went from being freezing to the warmest and nicest room in the house on a cold winter day. Do it like Kiel's pics, you won't be sorry.

OK, between my writing and posting, you put up the pics. Sure looks like the fuzz to me. Another hint..... Your inspector did identify the issue, but in the usual canned report off the shelf software fashion, the information is obfuscated into near incomprehensible gibberish, hidden in the silly format. If I was reporting it, the report would be relatively short and in summary format, there would be pictures, arrows pointing at the fuzz, and..... "There's white (insert appropriate description here) fuzz on the joists, most likely caused by the damp crawlspace and lack of vapor barrier. You should (insert crawlspace improvements here), then clean up the (mold/fuzz/killer growth). If you are concerned about the health effects of mold, talk to your personal medical professional, then get back to me if you have additional questions." Or something like that. Don't be red faced. Pretty much all inspection report formats completely and totally suck. They ignore well established methods of reporting information to lay people. Inspectors love them because..... 1) They imagine all that obfuscation makes them appear technical and knowledgeable. 2) Everyone else uses them. Report systems are a swamp of old bad ideas. Most of us in the biz are old guys, old guys really, really, really love MS Word, no one talks to anyone actually involved in the study and understanding of communication and/or rhetoric, and therein lies the problem. Everyone gets together, either on the inter-web, at conventions, at "educational" seminars, or at the local pro society chapter meetings, and they all reinforce each others stasis. It's what old guys do when they've run out of ideas, or never had any to begin with.

Yeah, pics. 'Cuz the white powder might not even be mold. Everything you're describing makes it sound like mold is the high probability, but it might just be some harmless fluff. But, if a crawlspace smells musty, the "vapor barrier" is visqueen tossed onto bare dirt, and you can see a bit of moisture leaking in here and there, you got a crawl that needs attention. What I described is Crawlspace 101. Vapor retarder/barrier, condition crawlspace. Regardless of the "mold", you ought to do it. What (most of) the franchises sell are really nice systems, and I won't dissuade you from investing in quality, but to some (large) degree, it's just a crawlspace. DIY. You should invest in some light weight scrim reinforced plastic sheeting; visqueen, in a word, is crap. It would be worth the extra expense to get some decent material.

I've seen some Lutron electronic programmable types that will do that, but personally, I find them aggravating. You have to stand there tapping and holding to get it to do the tricks. I like Katen's idea better. Simple.

The fact that neither home inspectors saw or reported on anything isn't at all surprising. Pretty common. Forget about them. Yes, the white stuff is probably a "mold". You indicated there's visible moisture entering the crawl; that means the dirt is probably a bit damp/wet, even if it doesn't look or feel wet. There's no vapor barrier to prevent all that moisture in the dirt from evaporating up into the house. The subfloor (probably OSB or plywood) is a vapor retarder, it holds the moisture down in the crawl. Since the moisture can't get out of the crawl, it finds someplace to condense. Mold thrives on most/any organic surface; the insulation stuffed joist cavities are perfect. If the joists are manufactured, it's even more perfect; all that OSB has had the natural decay preventative components extracted as part of the mfg. process. A nice little microclimate with dew point arrives eventually like magic; the moisture condenses, you got mold. Get a real vapor barrier on the crawlspace floor, air the joint out, then condition the crawl (heat or cool it like the rest of the house). Lacking moisture, the mold won't/can't grow. If you get inspired, hire a cleaning service to wipe out the joist cavities, although personally, I wouldn't bother. There's a few million mold spores on every surface on Earth, probably more on your cell phone or computer keyboard than in the crawlspace. Concentrate on keeping the place dry; everything else will (more or less) take care of itself.

Yeah, I was kinda making a joke to Jerry. Although, we do operate in a code soup here. Every municipality has it's own adoptions, and the CoCBD municipal building code is a swamp. I dream of the simplicity of the IRC.

No coping. It's running water, look at the white stains in the first pic. Call Garet Denise Cornerstone Building Inspection.

Isn't there an amendment or exception thru local 134?

35 year old septic.....yeah, it's done. I'd say your guess about the previous owner reducing load on the tank is probably right.

Garet is closest to right. The place is a sieve. What was true during the first energy crisis is still true; tighten the envelope before you do anything else.

Titanium hammers. A miracle. And 20v battery powered everything else. Keep the steenkin' worm drives; give me a nice lightweight battery powered saw nowadays. One word. Hilti.

Yessir! Here's some holiday cheer..... http://www.wimp.com/holidayband/

Yes.

I see it all the time too. It could be from any number of things during construction. I've never seen it be a problem either.

What Kibbel said. There's a couple of admin topics that show up as new, but they're not visible to outside the admin folks. We have to vote to kick people off the island? Can't we just toss all their stuff out to the curb?

I look at the material in that siding and eave work, and know it's all super prime clear vertical grain cork pine. Light, straight, stinking like pine tar.

OK, I'll go redneck..... If this was architecture (which I devoutly believe is Art), I'd be puking. Since it's a concrete block house in central Florida, I don't think it's architecture. It's a concrete block house. If I was inspecting the joint, I'd probably tell folks it's a cheap repair, but it'll probably work for at least a decade and then they can fix it again themselves. Yes, the rebar will continue to corrode, and eventually make repair necessary again. If it was a multi-story structure where some rusting rebar could cause a life safety hazard or some similarly serious issue, I'd say do it all over again. But, it's not. It's a single story concrete block house fer chrissakes. We're not talking bleeding on the brightwork here.....

Very, very helpful. Thank you . And now, I can say this stuff back to my customers and they'll think I'm smart. [:-angel]

Nope, it isn't. I'm now understanding that function is about venting. I knew it was previously, but I didn't realize how critically fundamental it is. Bad vents, lousy performance.

Yeah. I want to have a card game in the boiler room. "Don't come to the front door....come around back." I happen to have a teeny bit of Pappy Van Winkle; I may break it out for the inaugural boiler room card game.

Garet, yes. The equation wasn't adding up, but I've tweezed out the variables. Gas meter is fine, records are accurate, thermostatic controls check out with my other equipment, etc., etc. Somehow, I'm gaining in ways I'm not familiar with. Earl, that's great stuff. The building is "exposed on all four sides; no adjacent buildings, all single family around me. The windows are reasonably nice single pane double hung; there's a few loose one's, but for a 1929 building I'd put the windows in a top percentile ranking. The boiler is a basic WM LGB-6, with the secondary firing option so it's not all burners cranking all the time; it monitors condensate return temps and fires on some predetermined schedule depending on the condensate temps and the programming in the RD 1400. Not a speck of insulation on any of the pipes, but you'd probably look at the pipe layout and say "oh, that's it. The main lines have secondary condensate returns at the big elbows, and the return loop is very well vented. From all I can learn, good function is about vents, and I got them. I also wonder if all the "inefficient" pipe throughout the basement shedding heat.....if all that heat is captured in the concrete & terra cotta floor platform, and then slowly and evenly distributing it up through the building...(?). The efficiency of the exchange is one of the mysteries, and the thermosiphoning effect you describe....I wasn't aware that was going on too. That would explain how quick the thing heats up but at the same time I'm not blowing steam out the vent. I'm trying to grasp how moving the heat as vapor makes such a difference. I'm not a math guy; I think through problems mechanically, and this stuff isn't in my experience. I'm starting to get a handle on it. One very nice benefit of steam is the boiler room. It's cold here, and I go down there and pull my chair up to all that tonnage of hot iron, and it's real comfortable.

Conventional framing practice creates a number of thermal bypasses @ exterior wall & roof structure junctions. It's a great picture showing how it works.

There are no manufacturers guidelines; the building was constructed in 1929, and no one had yet heard of gas fired boilers. No one knows what the original "efficiency" of the coal fired behemoth was; I hope they don't care, as it has nothing to do with what I've been asking. Arguing? I've been asking for explanations. Hoosier guy kind of gave an explanation. Lamb provided an idea for an explanation. You're talking about everything other than what I've been asking about, with an undertone of insistence that you're "right". Yes, it's best you're not taking it any further. Anyone else got ideas? Like I said, thermodynamics isn't my strong suit.

I know what you're saying, and yes, of course, it's independent. If you're working in a lab. Then there's the world, where one can put the most efficient system into a stupid box and it don't mean squat. So, breaking it down into academic discussion of combustion efficiency tells you a lot. Or nothing. Having been a builder during the first energy crisis, we never talked about independence. All discussion was of interdependence. I got an inefficient heating mechanical plant, a box that's not got a speck of insulation, and every other marker of inefficiency, yet it works wonderfully. Explain that through combustion efficiency dynamics, because I can't.