Jim Katen

Yes the bare copper wires are grounded just fine. Fault current that returns on those wires will trip a breaker via the path you described. That's the important issue with branch circuit grounding wires. The NEC refers to it as "equipment grounding" Now somewhere in this service there should also be an earth-ground. The NEC (sort of) calls it, "system grounding" but some people are trying to change it to "earthing" or somesuch. The conductor for system grounding is called the "electrode grounding conductor (EGC)." It might originate in the service panel or it might originate in the meter can and its other end is supposed to terminate in the earth via one of a half dozen different methods. The presence, absence or integrity of the earth-ground will have *no effect* on the proper grounding of the branch circuits. It's there to stabilize voltage to the "electrical system" during surges. There's still another kind of grounding that the code calls "bonding." That's when we connect certain conductive building materials to each other and to the electrical grounding system to prevent voltage potential from occuring between them. In this picture, the two thicker copper wires at the bottom of the grounding terminal bar are, I suspect, the parts of the grounding system that you're looking for. I'll bet that one goes to earth, probably via the building steel, and the other goes to the water supply system pipes. Contrary to popular belief, there's no requirement that the EGC be colored green, though it often is. Black is fine. (Orange and white are forbidden.) The thick striped sheathed wire at the upper right terminal bar is not a grounding wire, it's the neutral service entrance conductor. I think the stripe is white. (It's supposed to be anyway.) - Jim Katen, Oregon

What do you think of the mass of wires passing through a single knock-out like that? - Jim Katen, Oregon

I think the exception for switch loops was eliminated in the '99 version. Check out 200-7©(2). In any case, the general rule that neutral (grounded) wires are colored white goes way back. It's in my 1947 edition and is probably much older. - Jim Katen, Oregon

If you ever see one of those panels and have a camera handy, I'd really like to see a picture of it. To the best of my knowlege, there isn't a manufacturer out there today who'll allow more than one neutral wire under a single terminal. Cutler Hammer has a confusing label that seems to allow this but, in fact, it does not. The prohibition is part of UL 67 and goes back at least 40 years. This panel is fraught with poor workmanship. I particularly like the mass of wires passing through the unbushed knockout and wad of spray foam. - Jim Katen, Oregon

There's no such requirement. I don't know that there ever was, though at one time it was common. I'm sure there was. There've been lots of court cases where home inspectors were sued and lost. Welcome to the profession. - Jim Katen, Oregon

ICP is International Comfort Products (used to be Inter City). They make Tempstar, Heil & Arcoaire. Some high-end air conditioning systems around here have two-stage compressors but I've never seen a three-stage one. Sounds peculiar. In any case, the number of stages in an AC system will have nothing to do with whether it's three-phase or single phase power. If you suspect that a building has three-phase power, look at the service panel. It'll have three ungrounded buses. Or, follow the service drop to the pole and look for three transformers. - Jim Katen, Oregon

I agree with all that. But as I understand Robert's post, there was no drywall. Just a poorly installed sheet of plastic. In that case, it wouldn't take much time for the air in the cavity to absorb moisture from without the cavity. That's certainly possible. Agreed. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Here's a few... That water is unacceptable in a crawlspace. Ducts that have been in the water should be removed, discarded and replaced. I live, eat & breathe crawlspaces on a daily basis. What you have there is a big problem. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Is this a house or a commercial building? Was it a three-phase service? Was the wire that was spliced to a smaller wire bare or insulated? Of course you know that the presence of an earth ground has nothing whatsoever to do with proper grounding at the outlets. They ST is just confirming that the grounding wire at the outlet is connected to the panel's neutral terminal bar. How did you measure the 12 amps? A clamp-on ammeter? Pictures. I need pictures. Where was the meter? Could it have been grounded there? Was this a country property? - Jim Katen, Oregon

That's one possibility, but if condensation were forming when cold water went down the drain, it would form on the drain pipe and soak the insulation. In the winter, hot water running down the drain would, as you describe, warm the surrounding air and lower the RH. But it wouldn't stay that way for long. The warmer, dryer air would soon absorb moisture from all around it as the vapor pressure tried to equalize itself. Then, when the pipe cooled off, you'd have oversaturated air with a relatively high dew point. I think that this is a simple problem. Fill this cavity with insulation -- any kind, take your pick -- install a nice, clean vapor barrier on the inside, sheetrock over it and paint. Everything will then be fine. The problem was caused by a half-assed vapor barrier and no drywall that allowed lots of vapor movement into the poorly insulated cavity. And Robert, no, I don't remove insulation from anywhere unless I have a reason to suspect something interesting is going on behind it. - Jim Katen, Oregon

I'll bet there is. The stuff has made its way to Oregon for crying out loud. It made the front page of the papers up here a few years ago when it first appeared. I think they nuked it or something like that. - Jim Katen, Oregon

The wire in your pictures is copper. The house looks like it was built in the 50s, before aluminum wiring became popular. As Mike said, the "CU-AL" rating simply means that it's rated for copper or aluminum. BTW, it looks newer than the other breakers. If you buy the house, dump the Zinsco panel. They're fussy little buggers. That snakeskin romex isn't the greatest stuff in the world either. It can get very brittle over time, particularly where it's been subject to heat, and it doesn't like abrasion, for instance when it's installed near an attic or crawlspace entrance and clods tend to step on it or crawl over it every few months. Take a piece in your hand and bend it, if it makes cracking and snapping sounds, replace it. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Has her display been dim lately? - Jim Katen, Oregon

Ok, first of all, standing water in the crawlspace is bad. Don't allow it to continue. There should be zero standing water down there, no exceptions. If you want, I can tell you how to get rid of it. Next, even if you get rid of it, the crawlspace is still going to be damp and you'll probably need that ventilation year round. So the 3" of foam insuation at the perimeter isn't going to do squat for saving energy or keeping your floor warm. I'd just stuff the joist bays with unfaced batts. Don't use any vapor barrier; it'll probably cause more problems than it'll solve. If the subfloor is plywood, it'll be enough of a vapor retarder for the floor plane. Where is the house? - Jim Katen, Oregon

Corners, based on your last few posts, you don't have a clue about what's involved in doing a home inspection. In another thread, you said that you had yet to do one for a fee. Don't you find it odd that someone who's never done a home inspection would presume to dictate to others (some of whom have done thousands) what training and qualifications are necessary to do this job properly? Arrogance and ignorance are a poor combination to build a career on. - Jim Katen, Oregon

You can't clean them. You need to either sent it back to Mag (they'll replace your switch for free) or take it to an approved Mag service center. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Poria incrassata? - Jim Katen, Oregon

It makes sense, it's a good idea, it does help to distribute conditioned air and I recommend it in my reports when it's lacking. However, it's not a "requirement." At least not in any published code or manufacturer's installation instructions. - Jim Katen

You're right. He's wrong. In the next ASHI Reporter there will be an excellent article on dryer venting by John Cranor. Something to look forward to. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Try pulling it sometime and you'll know right away why it's a bad idea. The conductors in Romex are solid. If you try to pull them through any significant distance or around bends, something's going to get damaged. Other than that, everything that Douglas says in the quotation that Mike posted. - Jim Katen, Oregon

If access is difficult, don't risk taking the ammeter measurements there, you could zap yourself or short something out. Instead, open up the breaker panel and clamp your meter around one of the conductors that leads to the furnace. Look for about 20 amps per strip. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Depends on the ductwork and the fan speed. Usually 110-120, but lower temps aren't unheard of. I'll bet that either one or two strips are burnt out or there's a problem with the sequencer. Next time, open up the cabinet and snap an ammeter around the leads to each strip. You'll know right away if one or more isn't firing. At that point, you can refer it to a tech or you could investigate a little further to narrow down the problem. - Jim Katen, Oregon Download Attachment: Electric Coil Test.jpg 75.1 KB

Putting a vapor retarder behind cement board is fine. If you don't already know about it, Home Energy is a great source of information on this kind of stuff. You might like this article: http://homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.a ... 80310.html Now, go put a whoopin' on that builder. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Rusty, This is from USG's spec sheet on green board (you can find it here http://www.usg.com/products/shaftwall/spec_prod.asp ): Limitations: Not recommended for ceilings where framing is greater than 12 inches on center, or in remodeling unless applied directly to studs. Panels should not be installed over a vapor retarder or on a wall acting as a vapor retarder unless it will not be tiled or finished with an impervious paint. Panels are not intended for use in areas subject to constant moisture such as tub and shower enclosures, gang showers and commercial food processing; DUROCK Cement Boards are recommended for these uses. It sounds like the person you talked to took part of a sentence out of context. Here's what I think about your bathroom: If it's a wall that will be wet or will be tiled over, you need cement board. (I like Hardibacker these days.) If it's an exterior wall that's *required* to have a vapor barrier on the inner side, then you can use plain sheet rock (or green board *if* you don't tile it [which you shouldn't do anyway] or finish it with an impervious paint.) There is no circumstance where it's a good idea, in your climate, to put the insulation up backwards. That's just plain dumb. The code doesn't allow it and USG doesn't recommend it. It's just the product of an ignorant insulation subcontractor's brain. As for green board in general, my personal opinion is that it has no place whatsoever in modern home construction. - Jim Katen, Oregon

Kurt, It sounds like one of the Masonite X-90 products. Chris posted the ICC report for the stuff I remember. They only stopped making it recently, maybe two or three years ago. If it's Masonite, it'll have a screen-like texture on the back and, if you can remove an entire piece, you'll find either the word "Masonite," the stylized letter "M" or "X-90" printed on the back. It was crap for that time period, but it was better than what came along in the late '80's. - Jim Katen, Oregon