article for report insertion

[John Dirks Jr]

I think this article provides good information. What do you think about linking it in reports to help describe applicable problems with improper fittings for plumbing transitions?

http://home.comcast.net/~arundelhomeinspection/TvsY.pdf

[John Dirks Jr]

Also,

Do designers or blue print planners map out plumbing drain routing and parts. I mean, do they specifically list what type of fittings should be used at each location or is that up to the plumber to decide?

[kurt]

Useful. Simple and easy to understand.

[John Dirks Jr]

  kurt said:

Useful. Simple and easy to understand.

I thought so too. Check the link in that pdf too. Theres lots of other articles with the same format.

[Ben H]

If I have something like this about a subject, I'll link to it (if web based) or embed it to the report. Which by the way I"ll be saving this one in the files.

[kurt]

  John Dirks Jr said:

Also,

Do designers or blue print planners map out plumbing drain routing and parts. I mean, do they specifically list what type of fittings should be used at each location or is that up to the plumber to decide?

It's plumbers.

Usually it's a simple isometric schematic.

Google Plumbing Layout Diagram......you'll see a bunch of options.

[Marc]

  John Dirks Jr said:

I think this article provides good information. What do you think about linking it in reports to help describe applicable problems with improper fittings for plumbing transitions?

http://home.comcast.net/~arundelhomeinspection/TvsY.pdf

For my purposes, it's too large and has too much text to decipher for such a simple finding. I'd rather just a few lines of text and a code cite.

Marc

[Greg Booth]

I agree with Marc

........Greg

[randynavarro]

What am I missing. . . ?

The drawing on that page sez combos are not allowed from horizontal to vertical.

IRC allows it, so does UPC.

[kurt]

No, it shows a combo as being correct. The drawing is not the best, but it's accurate.

There's endless links for everything. That one is OK until someone finds another.

Personally, I wouldn't bother linking to something as obscure as a specific plumbing fitting. Most folks aren't going to want to know that much.

I use links when it's something most folks have no idea existed. Mostly lime mortar.

[SNations]

  kurt said:

No, it shows a combo as being correct.

I think Randy's right. The drawing says a combo or 1/8+Wye is prohibited from horizontal to vertical.

[kurt]

No, it's a less than clear drawing.

Note under the Wye/1/8 combo, it says "correct". Under the sanitary tee, it says "prohibited".

OK, since the picture isn't crystal clear, maybe the link sucks.

Someone find a better link.......

[Jim Morrison]

I think it's important for home inspectors to learn the difference between what we think is useful and interesting, and what our clients do.

If I thought a client should replace an improper fitting, I'd just tell them to do it and why. Sure, you can include a link like that as well, but I don't suppose most of your clients would be interested in it, so it might only clutter up your report.

In my experience, clients don't want you to make them into Deputy Home Inspectors, they just want to know what's wrong with the house they're buying. Then, they promptly forget you and everything you've told them and return to the business of running the rest of their lives.

I've definitely been guilty of giving clients too much info, especially when I was just learning the business. I used to bury them in it. I was so impressed by what I was learning, I figured clients would be too. They weren't.

My Dad used to counsel me: 'When someone asks you what time it is, they're not asking you how to build a watch.'

[allseason]

  Jim Morrison said:

I think it's important for home inspectors to learn the difference between what we think is useful and interesting, and what our clients do.

If I thought a client should replace an improper fitting, I'd just tell them to do it and why. Sure, you can include a link like that as well, but I don't suppose most of your clients would be interested in it, so it might only clutter up your report.

In my experience, clients don't want you to make them into Deputy Home Inspectors, they just want to know what's wrong with the house they're buying. Then, they promptly forget you and everything you've told them and return to the business of running the rest of their lives.

I've definitely been guilty of giving clients too much info, especially when I was just learning the business. I used to bury them in it. I was so impressed by what I was learning, I figured clients would be too. They weren't.

My Dad used to counsel me: 'When someone asks you what time it is, they're not asking you how to build a watch.'

I would agree with that. I like the time to clock reference. I always try and consider the skill set of the client as well. I had a client in a 3.5 mil. home ask me how they would change the sump pump. I told them how I would do it. All they need is a phone.

[randynavarro]

  kurt said:

No, it's a less than clear drawing.

Note under the Wye/1/8 combo, it says "correct". Under the sanitary tee, it says "prohibited".

OK, since the picture isn't crystal clear, maybe the link sucks.

Someone find a better link.......

The drawing at the upper right middle of the page . . . with the blue water in it. The drawing says the "Wye and 1/8th bend or combo prohibited"

IRC Table P3005.1 (page 631) says "Combination wye and eighth bend" OK for horizontal to vertical change in direction.

Somebody find a better drawing. . . .

[kurt]

OK, when I look @ 3005.1, it's not clear at all, and it seems to indicate you can use a combo for horizontal to vertical change of direction. I have never, ever seen that approved, nor do I think it's correct.

Maybe I don't know what I'm looking at.

The whole idea of a sanitary tee is to prevent water flow from blocking the vent, just like the pic.

So, I still think the pic and explanation is right, but it conflicts with the table 3005.1.

Hmmmmmm..........

[kurt]

I think 3005.1 in my copy is wrong. It essentially says you can use anything for a horizontal to vertical change. Which is wrong.

Can there by a typo in the book?

[John Dirks Jr]

Here's a shot from my E copy of 2006 IRC 3005.1

It says any combination is ok for horizontal to vertical.

This is in dispute with the drawing in the link as Randy noticed.

I would normally use this link to illustrate incorrect transitions from vertical to horizontal. Those particular drawings in the link are correct. However, I agree since this one does contain errors, even if not the issues I'd be calling, I should find another link.

Click to Enlarge

41 KB

[Jim Katen]

The linked page is wrong in that regard. It's fine to use a combo or a wye to go from horizontal to vertical. If the pipes are properly sized the water flow won't restrict the vent air. As Randy pointed out, both the IRC and the UPC explicitly allow it.

I like the drawing with the red arrows. If I were dishonest I'd steal just that part to include with my reports.

[kurt]

Regional differences......

I don't think that's allowed in Chicago. Why bother having sanitary tee's?

[Jim Katen]

  kurt said:

Regional differences......

I don't think that's allowed in Chicago. Why bother having sanitary tee's?

The same reason they make vent elbows.

1: They're cheaper than wyes or combos. If you're plumbing an apartment building or a subdivision, the savings from san tees can add up.

2: The nearly right-angle profile makes for a very tidy, neat intersection with finished walls and a lot less clutter under sinks.