John Kogel Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 A 1959 SquareD panel has two double taps. One is for the doorbell transformer installed and we assume approved by the authority in 1959. The other was added a decade or two later when the basement was dressed up. I don't believe the breaker is rated for double tapping due to its age. I believe the doorbell double tap is acceptable but not good practice. I called for the electrician to check the added circuit installation and repair it. When did SquareD start adding the two wire rating to their breakers? Click to Enlarge 32.68 KB Click to Enlarge 53.6 KB Click to Enlarge 68.9 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Meyer Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 The type of Square D breakers that can accept two conductors have a plate with two raised areas. When the set screw is tightened, the plate exerts equal pressure on both conductors. Click to Enlarge 70.28 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 A 1959 SquareD panel has two double taps. One is for the doorbell transformer installed and we assume approved by the authority in 1959. The other was added a decade or two later when the basement was dressed up. I don't believe the breaker is rated for double tapping due to its age. I believe the doorbell double tap is acceptable but not good practice. I called for the electrician to check the added circuit installation and repair it. When did SquareD start adding the two wire rating to their breakers? I don't know when that happened. It might be interesting to find out, but from a need-to-know perspective, there'd be little point. As Ken pointed out, the ones that do accept two wires are readily identifiable in the field. I disagree about the doorbell transformer double tap being acceptable. It was wrong in '59 and it's wrong today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 A 1959 SquareD panel has two double taps. One is for the doorbell transformer installed and we assume approved by the authority in 1959. The other was added a decade or two later when the basement was dressed up. I don't believe the breaker is rated for double tapping due to its age. I believe the doorbell double tap is acceptable but not good practice. I called for the electrician to check the added circuit installation and repair it. When did SquareD start adding the two wire rating to their breakers? I don't know when that happened. It might be interesting to find out, but from a need-to-know perspective, there'd be little point. As Ken pointed out, the ones that do accept two wires are readily identifiable in the field. I disagree about the doorbell transformer double tap being acceptable. It was wrong in '59 and it's wrong today. The breakers I question are SquareD with two grooves in the bottom plate but a round washer for a top plate. I am calling those out for repair that is. Doorbell double tap - I do not disagree. The doorbell works fine though and has caused no obvious problem riding along on the breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 There is plenty of room for pigtails to correct the double taps. The equipment is still 56. How old is too old for electrical equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Good question. How old do breakers have to get before we don't trust them anymore? It probably varies between mfg's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Good question. How old do breakers have to get before we don't trust them anymore? It probably varies between mfg's. Apparently we can trust Arrow Hart Murray MP breakers for as long as we live. Click to Enlarge 65.21 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I say when replacements are no longer readily available. I was working on a 1995 Westinghouse panel two weeks ago and needed a breaker, nobody had them. Wholesale to Big Box Mart, nobody. Obsolete before the legal age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I say when replacements are no longer readily available. I was working on a 1995 Westinghouse panel two weeks ago and needed a breaker, nobody had them. Wholesale to Big Box Mart, nobody. Obsolete before the legal age. Eaton took them over and supplies replacement parts. I'm surprised to hear that a reputable electrical supply house couldn't fix you up with an appropriate replacement breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Manufacturers buy up other companies and then finding replacement breakers with the correct name on them is a problem. Sometimes manufactures publish a list of acceptable replacements, sometimes not. Technically, then maybe the panel is obsolete. I just had this issue with a Crouse Hinds panel in my house. I put a Seimens breaker in it and am not going to loose any sleep (except maybe the night before the HI comes when I am selling the house). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Manufacturers buy up other companies and then finding replacement breakers with the correct name on them is a problem. Sometimes manufactures publish a list of acceptable replacements, sometimes not. Technically, then maybe the panel is obsolete. I just had this issue with a Crouse Hinds panel in my house. I put a Seimens breaker in it and am not going to loose any sleep (except maybe the night before the HI comes when I am selling the house). There's no reason to use a breaker that has the same name brand on it as long as the breaker is listed for use in the panel. There are "classified" breakers out there for most of the older panels out there, certain for Crouse Hinds and Westinghouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Jim, you are correct. I know Cutler Hammer makes breakers that they say are rated for use in a Crouse Hinds panel. Some would say they are not approved by the manufacturer. That did not bother me, but they were not available at the big box store on the Sunday that I needed one. The breaker I needed was for an arc welder, so I'll probably remove that circuit anyway when I sell the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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