John Dirks Jr Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The island countertop overhangs the wall by 11" directly above the receptacle. The receptacle is 24" below the overhang. Is it correct to say this is not in compliance with NEC, or is there an exception that would allow it in the circumstance pictured. Click to Enlarge 42.76 KB Click to Enlarge 26.3 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I don't see any violation. Which provision were you suspecting? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 What possible problem/harm could it cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 That side of the counter is not technically in the kitchen based on the limited photo. It is in the den, breakfast nook, living room, whatever. The receptacle does not have to follow any of the island or kitchen receptacle rules you may be applying. It looks like there may be a sink in the pennsuila. Some people mistakening apply the "6 ft rule", of which there is no longer any 6 ft rules regarding GFCI with the exception of receptacles near a laundry sink. I RECOMMNEND the receptacle have GFCI because common use is to place a laptop, blender or other appliance on the countertop and use that receptacle. If the appliance falls into the sink, then GFCI is better than not. No NEC requirement assuming this is the "non kitchen" side of the counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm getting it mixed up with NEC 210.52©(5). That reference has to do with required counter top receptacles. In this case, the counter top has it's required receptacles on the other side and this one is actually serving the dining room, and not intended to be a service for the counter top space. Ben, I'm not sure why a restriction was put on locating receptacles beneath counter top overhangs greater than 6". Perhaps its a case where the overhang portion of the counter top space would be a position for seating (breakfast bar stools). A person might get their leg entangled in an appliance power cord which could pull a hot appliance from the counter top. Again, I think the argument would be made that the receptacle in question is not intended to be serving the counter top space, therefore NEC 210.52©(5) (which includes the restriction of receptacles beneath counter top overhangs greater than 6") does not apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNations Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 It looks to me like as long as there is another receptacle that properly serves this countertop then everything is OK. It's just that this receptacle can't be the one to serve this countertop. The CodeCheck book that I have has a picture of this situation with a hot crock pot on the countertop and it's plugged in to a receptacle too far below the countertop. The picture shows a baby reaching up to grab the plug, the implication being that the baby could pull the crock pot onto itself. I suppose you could call it unsafe to even have that receptacle there because it could be used for a kitchen appliance, and then the baby-pulling-the-plug scenario comes into play. I don't think I would say that, but I could understand the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The reason that they do not want an outlet on an island/peninsula with an over hang is to limit the length of the cord. Appliance manufacturers have even shortened the length of the cords to help prevent them from being stretched across the kitchen, counter, etc and becoming a hazard. I go with a max 6" overhang and no more than 12" from the top of the counter top. Most appliances only come with a 18" to 24" cord now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garet Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Peninsulas don't need a receptacle. That receptacle is intended to serve the adjacent room, not the counter-top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie R Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just because it is intended to serve the other room doesn't mean some person wouldn't use it to power their crock pot or whatever on the counter so at least point it out as a safety concern that is probably not backed up by code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just because it is intended to serve the other room doesn't mean some person wouldn't use it to power their crock pot or whatever on the counter so at least point it out as a safety concern that is probably not backed up by code. That's pretty much how I handled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNations Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Peninsulas don't need a receptacle. That receptacle is intended to serve the adjacent room, not the counter-top. I disagree that peninsulas don't need a receptacle. IRC E3901.4.3 Peninsular countertop space. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular countertop space with a long dimension of 24 inches (610 mm) or greater and a short dimension of 12 inches (305 mm) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I write it up as a safety concern based on common cents. (ms) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garet Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sure, but there's no requirement of where that receptacle needs to be located in the horizontal dimension. The peninsula starts at the far left side of the photo. A receptacle on the wall there (which is what I normally see) would satisfy that requirement. Based on what's in the photo, I don't assume that the receptacle in question is intended to serve the peninsula countertop, and I would not make an issue of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I doubt I'd notice it, or care if I did. I look for stuff that is telling me it's wrong, not stuff where I have to cogitate about obscure implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hi, In new construction around here that would be a GFCI protected receptacle and the receptacles in the adjacent dinette/dining room (whatever you want to call it) are also GFCI protected. If there are receptacles on the countertop on the other side of that top (breakfast bar - whatever) I'm not going to call it. Common sense says if you're in the kitchen and need to plug something in on the countertop you aren't going to the next room searching. I say that because I have that exact setup; and, though I know there is a receptacle there, I've never tried to plug in a kitchen appliance there because I have plenty of countertop receptacles. If there were a row of chairs for a breakfast bar there only a horses ass with teeth would go to all the trouble of searching behind those chairs for a receptacle when there are receptacles on the other side of that top. You can what if this stuff and invent wild scenarios all day long. At some point you just have to stop trying to find reasons to criticize something and use your noggin. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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