Gromicko Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Throwing insults and put downs isn't helpful to a meaningful dialogue. No sooner does Kurt throw down his "cut and run" insult... he ends up having to unexpectedly leave the forum for a week. That's the trouble with assuming I "cut and run" (Kurt's words, not mine) just because I couldn't get over here immediately. Sometimes other things in life take priority. Anyway, I'll return in a week to answer any questions. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Throwing insults and put downs, in either direction, isn't helpful to a meaningful dialogue. This place if full of insults. Why don't you guys have a pow wow and deal with the insults at home first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 It's bad enough we've got to buy protection. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Nick, a few questions: Did you buy into Home Safe or do you have anything to do with Environmental Service Professionals(ESP)? Why are you so spiteful against those who do not belong to your orginization? Thanks in advance for an honest answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Throwing insults and put downs, in either direction, isn't helpful to a meaningful dialogue. This place if full of insults. Why don't you guys have a pow wow and deal with the insults at home first? Uh, wait a minute, John, you just came over here from the iNACHI board and you say that this place is full of insults? Seriously? You should think on that for a minute or two. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromicko Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Scott Patterson asks: Nick, a few questions: Did you buy into Home Safe or do you have anything to do with Environmental Service Professionals(ESP)? Why are you so spiteful against those who do not belong to your orginization? Thanks in advance for an honest answer... With regard to your first question, I took actions to accomplish three goals: The first was to have the lawsuit against the inspector withdrawn. I achieved that goal just in time on the morning the inspector's response was due to be filed. I believe I had 6 hours left before he could potentially have lost by default. The next concern was to protect my members from immediate subsequent lawsuits and legal threats. I was able to achieve that goal, at least for now. The last goal was to provide a safe haven for all inspectors, not just InterNACHI members. When Bill Louden first called me about this issue (he called me last month, I didn't call him), I promised him and Frank Lesh that I wouldn't leave ASHI members out on a limb and that I would try to find a way to provide this safe haven for ASHI members who use IR cameras as well as InterNACHI members. I kept my promise. As for your second question, I just don't see your premise about being "spiteful" as having any truth relative to the comments made on this message board and when held against this message board as a backdrop. If you search back through this message board you will find plenty of spiteful and disrespectful comments about InterNACHI and me personally. Let me support this contention without wasting too much of your time using the search button. Let's take the first 3 pages of this very thread as a small sample of the comments made about InterNACHI and me. I leave them to the individual readers of this thread to judge: Post #15: Someone usually grabs the spotlight for what many toiled for, and who better than Nick to bask in the glory? Post #16: Nicky, whatever possessed him to play such a small time maneuver, has helped these folks, while wrapping himself in the guise of a savior. Post #22: It show Nicks true motivation with this issue... Post #24: He'd sink the profession for a dime. Post #25: Please re-consider the use of the word "businessman". This behavior does not indicate he is a businessman Post #26: Yes. I consider us to be business people. Nick....I'm not sure how to describe it in few words. Post #27: 'Unscrupulous' businessman perhaps, the antithesis of spiritual capitalist. Post #28: If this is true about Nick G. then I think the entire industry would want to know about his treachery at their expense. Post #43: This is a sad day for infrared thermography's use in building applications. I suppose in a capitalistic environment this maybe a big coup for Nick's pocketbook. Post #45: Do nacho members have rights? Nick Post #45: It might be fun to be inside and invite folks to take a look at Nick's world. Kind of a goofy "life in America" expose thing. Post #50: You can say anything you want within the dweeb universe, but everyone knows you really don't have anything outside of dweebland. So, why should I give a shit? Post #53: I took a couple Nachi courses from one of the schmoes, and honestly, it was ridiculous. Post #53: shoot off his mouth with lot of childishness and playing to the lowest common denominator mindset Post #53: A bunch of cheesey supposed benefits held out to the rubes may keep focaccia on your table, but I just can't take that shit anymore. Post #53: The ability to broadcast non-realities to bozos is cheap Post #53: Why the **** would I want to be part of anything that included that goofball? Post #53: You can blather all the childish zingers Post #53: when I consider the Nachi alternative, I feel soiled. Post #53: Shit, can't you put something together that isn't an embarrassment to this thing I've spent my life doing? Post #55: There goes 4 minutes of my life I can't get back... Post #56: You're the type that presents well on the surface but the substance of your education product sucks to high heaven. Post #56: Your writing has dollars written all over it. It motivated by financial profit instead of education. Post #57: how can Nacho have a shred of credibility Post #64: I gave Nick a chance to validate himself and his organization, and he cut and run. Poor guy might want to think about that. Post #65: is Nicks IR boy... In Johns eyes his master puppeteer can do no wrong. Post #69: He writes with an evasive and manipulative technique characteristic of an attorney in action. It's not about our profession but about a leech that feeds on it. Post #69: It's low. So this is what goes on at InterNACHI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromicko Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any other questions for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any other questions for me? Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Thank you for the reply Nick even though you did not directly answer the questions. Dance around the question and deflect seems to be pretty typical for you when you are asked a direct question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any other questions for me? Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Where was this "coalition" at the 11th hour before this case went to court? You can't join a group of talkers. Who, other than Nick, did something we can see by their actions? Also, if you knew Nick's legal team and their experience in patent law, you might understand their opinion that the patents in question might be hard to overcome. After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,? said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. ?We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members. From InterNACHI members now enjoy protection under infrared patent license. - InterNACHI http://www.nachi.org/homesafe.htm#ixzz2hW7kMpG5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any other questions for me? Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Where was this "coalition" at the 11th hour before this case went to court? You can't join a group of talkers. Who, other than Nick, did something we can see by their actions? Also, if you knew Nick's legal team and their experience in patent law, you might understand their opinion that the patents in question might be hard to overcome. After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,? said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. ?We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members. From InterNACHI members now enjoy protection under infrared patent license. - InterNACHI http://www.nachi.org/homesafe.htm#ixzz2hW7kMpG5 There's been mention from every corner how difficult a legal challenge it would be, so I'll grant you that. I guess its just a thorn in my side that if I were to purchase an IR camera, I could expect a letter from HomeSafe trying to get a check from me. I've a foundation in mechanical engineering and in thermodynamics. I'd never fork over those huge fees that those IR training schools charge. I'm confidant I could make good use of the device with practice and with what I already know about airborne moisture, thermal flux and temperature gradients in houses. The HomeSafe patent is robbery. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Where was this "coalition" at the 11th hour before this case went to court? You can't join a group of talkers. Who, other than Nick, did something we can see by their actions? Also, if you knew Nick's legal team and their experience in patent law, you might understand their opinion that the patents in question might be hard to overcome. I see. Making a deal with the devil is easier than doing your homework, like Scott Wood did? Would this be an example of the type of support perspective members should expect from this organization when faced with legal issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any other questions for me? Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Where was this "coalition" at the 11th hour before this case went to court? You can't join a group of talkers. Who, other than Nick, did something we can see by their actions? Also, if you knew Nick's legal team and their experience in patent law, you might understand their opinion that the patents in question might be hard to overcome. After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,? said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. ?We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members. From InterNACHI members now enjoy protection under infrared patent license. - InterNACHI http://www.nachi.org/homesafe.htm#ixzz2hW7kMpG5 There's been mention from every corner how difficult a legal challenge it would be, so I'll grant you that. I guess its just a thorn in my side that if I were to purchase an IR camera, I could expect a letter from HomeSafe trying to get a check from me. I've a foundation in mechanical engineering and in thermodynamics. I'd never fork over those huge fees that those IR training schools charge. I'm confidant I could make good use of the device with practice and with what I already know about airborne moisture, thermal flux and temperature gradients in houses. The HomeSafe patent is robbery. Marc Your opinion that infrared training is not needed is telling. Because you do not work as a building thermographer, then I suspect your theory has not been tested. Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromicko Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I'm not sure which questions are for me. If you have a question for me, start the question with my name so that I know that I am to answer. I think this one is meant for me: Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Because there is no coalition and my attempts to form one failed. For example, I asked ASHI if they would help and they turned me down explaining that they couldn't even commit $1,000 toward it because they have a 21-member board of directors that has to approve everything. Both major manufacturers turned me down too. So, I had to go it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromicko Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Any other questions for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I'm not sure which questions are for me. If you have a question for me, start the question with my name so that I know that I am to answer. I think this one is meant for me: Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Because there is no coalition and my attempts to form one failed. For example, I asked ASHI if they would help and they turned me down explaining that they couldn't even commit $1,000 toward it because they have a 21-member board of directors that has to approve everything. Both major manufacturers turned me down too. So, I had to go it alone. Could be folks turned you down because they don't trust you. History does have a way of repeating itself. Just saying..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I'm not sure which questions are for me. If you have a question for me, start the question with my name so that I know that I am to answer. I think this one is meant for me: Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Because there is no coalition and my attempts to form one failed. For example, I asked ASHI if they would help and they turned me down explaining that they couldn't even commit $1,000 toward it because they have a 21-member board of directors that has to approve everything. Both major manufacturers turned me down too. So, I had to go it alone. Could be folks turned you down because they don't trust you. History does have a way of repeating itself. Just saying..... The same folks did nothing for the poor inspector who was being sued. History will show that Nick was the only one who did something for the inspector in need and got the law suit dropped. The others could have done something, but did nothing instead. Does that make you trust them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Capitulation is worse then doing nothing, IMHO. A question for Nick: If, in the future, a coalition forms against HomeSafe and mounts a challenge, will InterNachi join it...or back HomeSafe? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Capitulation is worse then doing nothing, IMHO. A question for Nick: If, in the future, a coalition forms against HomeSafe and mounts a challenge, will InterNachi join it...or back HomeSafe? Marc If the patent fails or wins... InterNACHI and it's members will feel no pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I'm not sure which questions are for me. If you have a question for me, start the question with my name so that I know that I am to answer. I think this one is meant for me: Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Because there is no coalition and my attempts to form one failed. For example, I asked ASHI if they would help and they turned me down explaining that they couldn't even commit $1,000 toward it because they have a 21-member board of directors that has to approve everything. Both major manufacturers turned me down too. So, I had to go it alone. Could be folks turned you down because they don't trust you. History does have a way of repeating itself. Just saying..... The same folks did nothing for the poor inspector who was being sued. History will show that Nick was the only one who did something for the inspector in need and got the law suit dropped. The others could have done something, but did nothing instead. Does that make you trust them? I think you are wrong. A large group immediately began organizing and they continue to do so. There's a difference between member-owned associations with representative governance that aren't permitted to do anything without debating it first, and then voting on it, and a private entity. Don't think so? Look at the snarl in D.C. Those other associations have by-laws they are obligated to follow. Nick's association is basically thousands of folks paying him a few hundred every year to participate in his association but he isn't hamstrung by any by-laws. Look at it this way, governments are debating forever what to do about global warming but if they wanted to Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Donald Toupe' and others who are obscenely wealthy could dip into their pockets and hire every farmer who's cutting and slashing in the Amazon rain forests and make them game wardens and pay them a very comfortable wage overnight. Then instead of cutting and slashing those wardens would zealously guard the rain forest and preserve it. Those folks could do that with their pocket change. Instead, they rely on their governments to come to a solution and that takes time. In the case of this guy who was getting sued by the patent trolls, there wasn't enough time to bring all of these disparate groups together, formulate a cohesive plan and then go back to membership, organize meetings to discuss the issue and then bring it to a vote in each organization so the "coalition" could move forward. Nick, unencumbered by any rules except those he makes up for himself, was able to use his considerable resources (membership dues) to act immediately. It's just too bad he didn't use those resources to stall the patent trolls long enough to allow the other associations time to get their coalition up and running; so that the coalition, with him included, could move forward in a direction everyone agreed on. Had Nick done that for the benefit of the profession, instead of unilaterally acting on his own and tacitly validating the tent trolls' nutty claim, he would have been hailed as a hero and a whole lot of folks might have changed their opinions about him and his association. Instead, he's just made it more difficult for all of those inspectors using infrared that don't belong to his association. Now, instead of being the hero, he has set himself to look, in their eyes, like the villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I'm not sure which questions are for me. If you have a question for me, start the question with my name so that I know that I am to answer. I think this one is meant for me: Why support a company that's obviously attempting to noose the profession and milk it dry? Why not use your abundant resources to join a coalition of inspectors to repudiate this patent? Marc Because there is no coalition and my attempts to form one failed. For example, I asked ASHI if they would help and they turned me down explaining that they couldn't even commit $1,000 toward it because they have a 21-member board of directors that has to approve everything. Both major manufacturers turned me down too. So, I had to go it alone. Could be folks turned you down because they don't trust you. History does have a way of repeating itself. Just saying..... The same folks did nothing for the poor inspector who was being sued. History will show that Nick was the only one who did something for the inspector in need and got the law suit dropped. The others could have done something, but did nothing instead. Does that make you trust them? I think you are wrong. A large group immediately began organizing and they continue to do so. There's a difference between member-owned associations with representative governance that aren't permitted to do anything without debating it first, and then voting on it, and a private entity. Don't think so? Look at the snarl in D.C. Those other associations have by-laws they are obligated to follow. Nick's association is basically thousands of folks paying him a few hundred every year to participate in his association but he isn't hamstrung by any by-laws. Look at it this way, governments are debating forever what to do about global warming but if they wanted to Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Donald Toupe' and others who are obscenely wealthy could dip into their pockets and hire every farmer who's cutting and slashing in the Amazon rain forests and make them game wardens and pay them a very comfortable wage overnight. Then instead of cutting and slashing those wardens would zealously guard the rain forest and preserve it. Those folks could do that with their pocket change. Instead, they rely on their governments to come to a solution and that takes time. In the case of this guy who was getting sued by the patent trolls, there wasn't enough time to bring all of these disparate groups together, formulate a cohesive plan and then go back to membership, organize meetings to discuss the issue and then bring it to a vote in each organization so the "coalition" could move forward. Nick, unencumbered by any rules except those he makes up for himself, was able to use his considerable resources (membership dues) to act immediately. It's just too bad he didn't use those resources to stall the patent trolls long enough to allow the other associations time to get their coalition up and running; so that the coalition, with him included, could move forward in a direction everyone agreed on. Had Nick done that for the benefit of the profession, instead of unilaterally acting on his own and tacitly validating the tent trolls' nutty claim, he would have been hailed as a hero and a whole lot of folks might have changed their opinions about him and his association. Instead, he's just made it more difficult for all of those inspectors using infrared that don't belong to his association. Now, instead of being the hero, he has set himself to look, in their eyes, like the villain. Your comments are all based on what "could have been", what "should have been", what "might be", what "could be"... etc... Let me know how all that works out for you. In the mean time, in the real world, Nick provided a solution and to those of us who enjoy the solution... he is no villian. Member dues have provided another benefit for InterNACHI that is really nice. BTW... during the next round of law suits, and they are coming, it will be interesting to see who rises from the "coalition" to save the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjloden Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Scott Patterson asks: Nick, a few questions: Did you buy into Home Safe or do you have anything to do with Environmental Service Professionals(ESP)? Why are you so spiteful against those who do not belong to your orginization? Thanks in advance for an honest answer... With regard to your first question, I took actions to accomplish three goals: The first was to have the lawsuit against the inspector withdrawn. I achieved that goal just in time on the morning the inspector's response was due to be filed. I believe I had 6 hours left before he could potentially have lost by default. The next concern was to protect my members from immediate subsequent lawsuits and legal threats. I was able to achieve that goal, at least for now. The last goal was to provide a safe haven for all inspectors, not just InterNACHI members. When Bill Louden first called me about this issue (he called me last month, I didn't call him), I promised him and Frank Lesh that I wouldn't leave ASHI members out on a limb and that I would try to find a way to provide this safe haven for ASHI members who use IR cameras as well as InterNACHI members. I kept my promise. In reviewing Mr. Gromicko's post above I find one accurate statement. That being that I called him. From that point on the narrative is a flight of fantasy and the record needs to be corrected. First lets make it clear that Mr. Russell, the threatened inspector, was not an ASHI member but we at ASHI wanted to help. As a courtesy, we called Mr. Gromicko to determine if he had a plan that we could work with. In the course of the discussion he made references to such odd possibilities as writing his own standard and using that as a legal defense. He also believed that everyone should avoid reading the HomeSafe patents. Mr. Gromicko indicated that on advice of his counsel, he had not read the patents. This was, in his mind, some kind of magic shield that would protect him and his members from legal action. Over the past five years I have consulted with patent attorneys in New York, Washington DC, Detroit and Huntsville, it was clear to me that Mr. Gromicko was grasping for a solution and had little in the way of a viable plan that ASHI could work with. I did tell him we were reactivating our task force on the issue and were willing to work with INACHI members who were willing to join an industry coalition to have these patents overturned. At the end of our conversation Mr. Gromicko asked for a "gentleman's agreement" between himself and ASHI that neither party take any action without first consulting the other. We agreed and ASHI held to that agreement. You can image our surprise that Mr. Gromicko broke his word and unilaterally made his deal with HomeSafe. As far as this supposed 6 hour deadline Mr. Gromicko says he had to save Mr. Russell, I spoke to Mr. Russell on the day before the date he was required to respond and he said his attorneys had developed a response and strategy and were ready to move ahead. The deadline was merely to respond, basically they had to enter a plea, guilty or not of patent infringement. Once a plea was entered that Mr. Russell had not violated the patents, there would have been months of back and forth and eventually a trial date would be set, probably sometime late next year. Plenty of time to build the coalition we are working on now. At ASHI we are very committed to resolve this matter in a moral and responsible manner. We have already joined with a Washington DC lobbying group, Coalition for Patent Fairness, and will be incorporating our on industry coalition, (with the ASHI board approval next week) within the next few weeks. We have already received promises of industry support and will be asking all thermographers to step up and contribute to our coalition to raise the tens of thousands of dollars it will take to protect the industry of these patent trolls. I invite all home inspectors and thermographers to stand with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 ...Your comments are all based on what "could have been", what "should have been", what "might be", what "could be"... etc... Let me know how all that works out for you. In the mean time, in the real world, Nick provided a solution and to those of us who enjoy the solution... he is no villian. Member dues have provided another benefit for InterNACHI that is really nice. BTW... during the next round of law suits, and they are coming, it will be interesting to see who rises from the "coalition" to save the day. He provided an illusion disguised as a 'solution' which, in truth, sells to the InterNachi members an additional service at the immediate expense of the InterNachi membership and eventually the entire industry - when HomeSafe returns with another threat after being invigorated by the InterNachi 'sale'. The truth emerges slowly but steadily. I don't own an IR camera but that won't stop me from joining hands and helping fund the fight to eradicate the leeches. I just wonder where Nick will be when that happens. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcKenna Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Scott Patterson asks: Nick, a few questions: Did you buy into Home Safe or do you have anything to do with Environmental Service Professionals(ESP)? Why are you so spiteful against those who do not belong to your orginization? Thanks in advance for an honest answer... With regard to your first question, I took actions to accomplish three goals: The first was to have the lawsuit against the inspector withdrawn. I achieved that goal just in time on the morning the inspector's response was due to be filed. I believe I had 6 hours left before he could potentially have lost by default. The next concern was to protect my members from immediate subsequent lawsuits and legal threats. I was able to achieve that goal, at least for now. The last goal was to provide a safe haven for all inspectors, not just InterNACHI members. When Bill Louden first called me about this issue (he called me last month, I didn't call him), I promised him and Frank Lesh that I wouldn't leave ASHI members out on a limb and that I would try to find a way to provide this safe haven for ASHI members who use IR cameras as well as InterNACHI members. I kept my promise. In reviewing Mr. Gromicko's post above I find one accurate statement. That being that I called him. From that point on the narrative is a flight of fantasy and the record needs to be corrected. First lets make it clear that Mr. Russell, the threatened inspector, was not an ASHI member but we at ASHI wanted to help. As a courtesy, we called Mr. Gromicko to determine if he had a plan that we could work with. In the course of the discussion he made references to such odd possibilities as writing his own standard and using that as a legal defense. He also believed that everyone should avoid reading the HomeSafe patents. Mr. Gromicko indicated that on advice of his counsel, he had not read the patents. This was, in his mind, some kind of magic shield that would protect him and his members from legal action. Over the past five years I have consulted with patent attorneys in New York, Washington DC, Detroit and Huntsville, it was clear to me that Mr. Gromicko was grasping for a solution and had little in the way of a viable plan that ASHI could work with. I did tell him we were reactivating our task force on the issue and were willing to work with INACHI members who were willing to join an industry coalition to have these patents overturned. At the end of our conversation Mr. Gromicko asked for a "gentleman's agreement" between himself and ASHI that neither party take any action without first consulting the other. We agreed and ASHI held to that agreement. You can image our surprise that Mr. Gromicko broke his word and unilaterally made his deal with HomeSafe. As far as this supposed 6 hour deadline Mr. Gromicko says he had to save Mr. Russell, I spoke to Mr. Russell on the day before the date he was required to respond and he said his attorneys had developed a response and strategy and were ready to move ahead. The deadline was merely to respond, basically they had to enter a plea, guilty or not of patent infringement. Once a plea was entered that Mr. Russell had not violated the patents, there would have been months of back and forth and eventually a trial date would be set, probably sometime late next year. Plenty of time to build the coalition we are working on now. At ASHI we are very committed to resolve this matter in a moral and responsible manner. We have already joined with a Washington DC lobbying group, Coalition for Patent Fairness, and will be incorporating our on industry coalition, (with the ASHI board approval next week) within the next few weeks. We have already received promises of industry support and will be asking all thermographers to step up and contribute to our coalition to raise the tens of thousands of dollars it will take to protect the industry of these patent trolls. I invite all home inspectors and thermographers to stand with us. You say Mr Gromicko had no plan that ASHI could work with. You seem to pick out parts of the discussion that make it appear that Mr Gromicko was considering many possible plans. You also admit that you had nothing to offer, and that the task force on this issue was shut down. Then Mr Gromicko got an idea that was outside your conversation with him and he acted to get the case dropped and reached an agreement that removed the threat of law suits for those who wanted the protection. So far you have not offered any plan (which you can still do at anytime). So far you have nothing to offer other than saying you want a donation. Why am I not surprised? The inspector being sued has said he did not have the kind of money you talk about in order to fight this patent issue. So me thinks he had no working plan and did not even have the money to act on a plan, even if he wanted to. Zero plus zero still equals zero. You have defended your zero but nothing has been done. Your own task force was even shut down until Mr Gromicko put a fire under your ......... What is your solution? That is the question we need answered. Anyone can say their idea is better... so please tell us your plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromicko Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Bill Loden writes: At the end of our conversation Mr. Gromicko asked for a "gentleman's agreement" between himself and ASHI that neither party take any action without first consulting the other. We agreed and ASHI held to that agreement. You can image our surprise that Mr. Gromicko broke his word and unilaterally made his deal with HomeSafe. No, you broke the agreement with your press release. With the exception of taking the immediate action I told you I had to take to help my member (not yours) who had been sued personally, who had a home that was at risk, who publicly explained he could not financially afford to fight, who asked for my help, and who was required by the court to file a response quickly... I did nothing but work on my own IR patent application. I have experience writing standards (see www.nachi.org/comsop I am the lead author of that standard) and experience with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (I do all of InterNACHI's Trademark applications ). I am also in a uniquely strong position to author and apply for our own patent without risk of being accused of copying Home Safe's process, because I actually have never read their process and can testify under oath that I've never read it. You can imagine my surprise when you violated our "gentlemen's agreement" and put out an industry-wide press release regarding Home Safe that criticized me personally for helping my own member by having the suit withdrawn. Kurt posted your press release in his post #19 dated September 1, 2013, should you need to refresh your memory. You will note that in your post #97 Bill, you claim that I broke my word and unilaterally made a deal with HomeSafe (see your exact quote above). This is a lie. I did no such thing prior to ASHI putting out that press release referencing me. As evidence, you will note that ASHI's press release makes no mention of any such deal, because at the time, no such deal existed. You released me from our gentlemen's agreement when you breached it by unilaterally blasting out a press release to everyone. You gave me your word (which you admit to doing on this message board)... and then you immediately broke it big time with an industry-wide press release referencing me in an unflattering way. Until today, I made no public complaint of this. You brought it up, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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