Home Safe vs Assured Home Inspection

[kurt]

Yes. I consider us to be business people.

Nick....I'm not sure how to describe it in few words.

[Marc]

Yeah, he's clearly a businessman above all else. He'd sink the profession for a dime.

Marc

Marc,

Please re-consider the use of the word "businessman". This behavior does not indicate he is a businessman, at least to my thinking.

'Unscrupulous' businessman perhaps, the antithesis of spiritual capitalist.

Marc

[Hearthman]

This issues brings several things to mind. First of all, this is an unfair restraint of trade. The technology (art) existed prior to this company and their application cannot be proven to provide some unique utility that no other method, program of certification does not provide. It also would constitute a monopoly.

As to other means of putting pressure on them, I would suggest the IR mfrs. consider a few options:

1) they can require operators take their own factory certification before purchasing a camera.

2) they can publish notifications to attorneys representing construction defects cases that where companies using this patented system were involved, they hereby assume absolute liability for the veracity of their findings both for the errors and omissions.

3) contact the E&O insurance providers about the case. When they see how liable they have become, they may choose to rescind any insurance with these franchisees.

4) Contact your Congressmen. Ask them to introduce legislation crafted by a coalition of stakeholders to block this sort of thuggery and invalidate their claim.

5) contact all the utilities, energy raters, and anyone who is involved with 'green' energy, saving the planet, energy efficiency, energy audits, efficiency rebates, energy mortgages, title companies, Low Income Home Energy Assistance Programs, etc. and tell them they have to cancel ALL their programs and to give back all the money that was allegedly acquired illegally. Then tell them where to sign up to fight this monopoly.

If they want it, fine. Dump it all in their laps and swamp them with litigation from all angles. This can put them out of business.

If this is true about Nick G. then I think the entire industry would want to know about his treachery at their expense.

On the good side, the price of IR cameras may plummet if nobody will buy them, which is good for us but may run the mfrs. out of business, which is bad for us all. I'd prefer thriving businesses all around--except those who resort to extorting the entire country in this manner.

[Scottpat]

This issues brings several things to mind. First of all, this is an unfair restraint of trade. The technology (art) existed prior to this company and their application cannot be proven to provide some unique utility that no other method, program of certification does not provide. It also would constitute a monopoly.

As to other means of putting pressure on them, I would suggest the IR mfrs. consider a few options:

1) they can require operators take their own factory certification before purchasing a camera.

2) they can publish notifications to attorneys representing construction defects cases that where companies using this patented system were involved, they hereby assume absolute liability for the veracity of their findings both for the errors and omissions.

3) contact the E&O insurance providers about the case. When they see how liable they have become, they may choose to rescind any insurance with these franchisees.

4) Contact your Congressmen. Ask them to introduce legislation crafted by a coalition of stakeholders to block this sort of thuggery and invalidate their claim.

5) contact all the utilities, energy raters, and anyone who is involved with 'green' energy, saving the planet, energy efficiency, energy audits, efficiency rebates, energy mortgages, title companies, Low Income Home Energy Assistance Programs, etc. and tell them they have to cancel ALL their programs and to give back all the money that was allegedly acquired illegally. Then tell them where to sign up to fight this monopoly.

If they want it, fine. Dump it all in their laps and swamp them with litigation from all angles. This can put them out of business.

If this is true about Nick G. then I think the entire industry would want to know about his treachery at their expense.

On the good side, the price of IR cameras may plummet if nobody will buy them, which is good for us but may run the mfrs. out of business, which is bad for us all. I'd prefer thriving businesses all around--except those who resort to extorting the entire country in this manner.

All very true, but one thing to keep in mind is that the home inspector/energy rater, etc.. make up a very small percentage of the IR market for the manufacturers. I have heard that we amount to less than 5% of their business. The answer is going to be with a coalition and the groundwork is being set for that now.

[David Meiland]

Somewhat related http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... nt-trolls/

[Marc]

Somewhat related http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... nt-trolls/

I hope the momentum builds and results in the eventual dissolution of the HomeSafe patent.

Marc

[David Meiland]

This topic got pretty hot on the RESNET/BPI forum on LinkedIn, and I think there are enough people interested to move it forward. All that's needed is someone(s) to organize it.

[kurt]

Bill Loden is working on it. Feel very lucky that Loden is on the job. I do.

[Les]

Bill Loden is working on it. Feel very lucky that Loden is on the job. I do.

I agree, Bill is very good at his ASHI "job". And, he is bigger than me!

He was one of the first inspectors I knew that started working with a camera. Horses, I think.

[Scottpat]

A coalition is being organized at this time, this is going to be a well organized group. Right now the legal and tax framework(this is the largest hurdle) is being created in order to form a not for profit professional coalition that can provide the united front that is needed to fight this. Website domain names have been secured and the site is being designed.

Some in our profession are seeing the Home Safe patents as a way to force individuals to join their organization by offering hints that they will be safe from a lawsuits if they joint their organization. Hints have been dropped that the person who stepped in to have the lawsuit withdrawn now has a financial interest in the patents. Even a lab called Pro Lab has been implicated by the same individual as also having a financial interest in the IR patents.

This is going to take a united front from all, not just the manufacturers or vendors. When the call goes out for support from the coalition you need to be ready to support it.. Talk is cheap as they say but this fight will not be.

[Scott Wood]

Below are the first 20 citations I've located, starting in 1974 that discuss the use of thermography in building applications. I have an additional 37 references stopping at 2004 citations. Contact me and I'll be happy to provide additional citations or add those I've missed.

1. CRREL, Hanover, NH, October 1974, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography. Part I Description of technique.

2. CRREL, Hanover, NH, September 1975, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, ?Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography. Part II Survey of Peace Air Force Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

3. Popular Science Magazine, September 1975: pp. 86-87, 132-134, Herbert Shuldiner, Infrared Scanners can cut your home energy bills.

4. CRREL, , December 1975, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography Part III-Survey of USA

5. Popular Science Magazine, February 1976: p. 138, Al Lees, ?Plugging Home Energy Leaks.?

6. CRREL, September 1976, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, ?Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography Part IV. Estimating Quantitative Heat Loss at Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire.

7. Popular Science Magazine, January 1978: p. 83, Herbert Shuldiner, Heat-leak locator thermographic scanner charts insulation gaps.

8. Science.gov, December 1982, C.C. Jr. Roberts, Infrared thermography is a useful tool for the diagnosis of problems in building systems.

9. ISO 6781 Thermal Insulation, (first published 1983) Qualitative Detection of Thermal Irregularities in Building Envelopes, Infrared Method. American National Standards Institute.

10. Manual for Thermographic Analysis of Building Enclosures (149-GP-2MP). 1986/02/01 Canadian General Standards Board, Ottawa, Canada K1A 1G6.

11. Thermosense III, September 1980, D. T. Harrje, G. S. Dutt, K. J. Gadsby, Isolating the building thermal envelope.

12. Thermosense III, September 1980, Dag Holmsten, ?Thermographic study of transient heat-flow in residential dwellings.?

13. Thermosense III, September 1980, Stephen J. Marshall, Detecting moisture in buildings using infrared thermography.

14. Thermosense III, September 1980, Dag Holmsten, Thermographic study of transient heat-flow in residential dwellings.

15. Thermosense III, September 1980, Stephen J. Marshall, Detecting moisture in buildings using infrared thermography.

16. Thermosense V, October 1982, Ronald J. Ward, Thermographic inspections and the residential conservation service program (RCS).

17. Thermosense VI, October 1983, J. B. Fang, R. A. Grot, K. W. Childs, G. E. Courville, Heat loss due to thermal bridges in buildings.

18. Thermosense VI, October 1983, K. J. Gadsby, D. T. Harrje, Use of thermography in the diagnostics of energy use in multifamily dwellings.

19. Thermosense VI, October 1983, Y.-M. L. Chang, R. A. Grot, The role of thermography in the assessment of the thermal integrity of federal office buildings.

20. Thermosense VI, October 1983, S. A. Seeber, Use of infrared thermography for the identification of design and construction faults in buildings.

[bjloden]

Great research Scott. We will definitely be using this as we go forward.

[Les]

Scott, nice work!

[Hearthman]

http://www.infiltec.com/inf-fave.htm#Infrared

Links to IR thermography on Infiltec's site. Some of these go way back.

HTH,

[Scott Wood]

I only posted an abbreviated list and may have left off some great references for pre 2005 building thermography citations. If you have specific citations (or complete publications) please feel free to forward and I'll include them in the growing list. Currently I'm at about 56 citations that discuss the utilization of thermography in building applications and have not looked at all publications yet.

[kurt]

Yeah, really nice work. Scott, you're a mensch.

[JMcKenna]

UPDATE

http://www.nachi.org/homesafe.htm

InterNACHI members now enjoy protection under infrared patent license.

InterNACHI Purchases Infrared Patent License for Membership

________________________________________________________

All Existing and New Members Are Covered Under Association License

BOULDER, Colo. (Oct. 3, 2013)?-InterNACHI, the largest home inspection association in the United States, has recently reached an agreement with HomeSafe Inspection, Inc., to provide a group patent license exclusively for its entire membership. The license will go into effect immediately.

?After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,? said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. ?We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members.?

According to Kevin J. Seddon, president of HomeSafe Inspection, Inc., the agreement will grant every InterNACHI member, as well as anyone who joins InterNACHI, the right to utilize HomeSafe?s patented procedures during the course of a building inspection.

As long as the individual inspector joins and remains a member of InterNACHI, he or she will be protected under the license from prior infringement of the patents, as well as from future use of the patented procedures,? said Seddon. ?We have always maintained that we developed our patents, our training, and our certification internally many years ago, and our intent was and is for every inspector to use our procedures appropriately and responsibly. We believe that teaming with InterNACHI and offering this license to its members will mainstream the use of infrared technology in our industry,? Seddon continued. ?InterNACHI has proven its business acumen by recognizing our patents and reaching out to protect its members. And InterNACHI?s dedication to providing quality educational opportunities and communication forums for its membership further indicates that informing its members about proper inspection procedures and usage of all technology is a top priority.?

InterNACHI members who use infrared technology may continue to use that technology and are not required to fill out any documentation. However, it is encouraged that inspectors pursue the proper training and utilize the appropriate infrared technology while performing inspections.

New InterNACHI members wishing to be included under the license are asked only to fill out their InterNACHI membership application and inform InterNACHI that they are currently using or plan to use infrared technology during the course of their building inspections. There are no other requirements.

For further information about InterNACHI, visit their website at: www.nachi.org.

For more information on HomeSafe?s patents, visit them online at:

www.homesafeinspection.com/home-inspect ... hodologies

From InterNACHI members now enjoy protection under infrared patent license. - InterNACHI http://www.nachi.org/homesafe.htm#ixzz2ggSdoT8m

[Scott Wood]

John, This is a sad day for infrared thermography's use in building applications. I suppose in a capitalistic environment this maybe a big coup for Nick's pocketbook.

It is hard to understand how thermography's use in buildings for ...energy inspections or energy audits, indoor air quality inspections or termite inspections... was not prior art since publications as early as 1974 show it was shown to be developed by taxpayer funds at CRREL:

1. CRREL, Hanover, NH, October 1974, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography. Part I Description of technique.

ABSTRACT A method to assess quickly the insulation effectiveness of buildings using mobile infrared thermography has been developed at USA CRREL. In contrast to the infrared thermography done in Sweden, this method concentrates on obtaining useful data by measuring the outside surface temperature of structures. This report outlines the basic principles involved in these measurements, and discusses field measurements and the inherent advantages of infrared thermography. Typical thermograms are presented in the appendixes.

2. CRREL, Hanover, NH, September 1975, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography. Part II Survey of Peace Air Force Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

ABSTRACT During the winter of 1973-74 a mobile infrared thermography system was used to survey housing units and base facilities at Pease Air Force Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire. This report provides both qualitative and quantitative evidence regarding heat flow out of the eave vents of these housing units. Calculations indicate that a significant amount of heat is being lost in this manner due to inadequate attic (cap) insulation. Possible evidence of incomplete ventilation could explain the presence of condensation in the housing units. Analyses of thermograms are presented to show the possible existence of low and high pressure areas around a structure and how they relate to heat loss.

3. Popular Science Magazine, September 1975: pp. 86-87, 132-134, Herbert Shuldiner, Infrared Scanners can cut your home energy bills.

4. CRREL, December 1975, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography Part III-Survey of USA

ABSTRACT During the winter of 1973-74 a mobile infrared thermography system was used to survey the USACRREL building at Hanover, New Hampshire. This report provides a description of excessive heat losses at several locations around the building. This report also discusses the need to carefully monitor meteorological conditions before starting a survey of a building exterior to determine if solar radiation decay from the building surface might interfere with thermographic analysis by masking the heat emanating from within the building.

5. Popular Science Magazine, February 1976: p. 138, Al Lees, Plugging Home Energy Leaks.

6. CRREL, September 1976, R.H. Munis, R.H. Berger, S.J. Marshall, M.A. Bush, Detecting Structural Heat Losses With Mobile Infrared Thermography Part IV. Estimating Quantitative Heat Loss at Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire.

ABSTRACT During the winter of 1973-74 a mobile infrared thermography system was used to survey campus buildings at Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire. This report provides both qualitative and quantitative data regarding heat flow through a small area of a wall of one brick dormitory building before and after installation of aluminum reflectors between radiators and the wall. These data were used to estimate annual cost savings for 22 buildings of similar construction having aluminum reflectors installed behind 1100 radiators. The data were then compared with the actual savings which were calculated from condensate meter data. The discrepancy between estimated and actual annual cost savings is explained in detail along with all assumptions required for these calculations.

7. Popular Science Magazine, January 1978: p. 83, Herbert Shuldiner, Heat-leak locator thermographic scanner charts insulation gaps.

[Gromicko]

Note my signature line.

[kurt]

Just a thought.......

What if all of us join? As members we would have access and rights. If rights were denied, what then? There's enough sane members to begin asking questions. Do nacho members have rights? Nick, what rights do we have as members?

We'd be inside. A professional society that didn't recognize members rights to direct activity would be one of those goofy things that investigative journalists love. It makes a mildly interesting news story.

It might be fun to be inside and invite folks to take a look at Nick's world. Kind of a goofy "life in America" expose thing.

Nick, how much to join?

[kurt]

The more I think about this, the more I like it. We'd be members. Inside.

Nick, are you there? Explain the benefits and rights of members, please. I'm interested.

[Gromicko]

What if all of us join?

Nick, are you there? Explain the benefits

I'm interested.

Here are a few of the membership benefits: www.nachi.org/benefits.htm

Welcome.

[Marc]

What if all of us join?

Nick, are you there? Explain the benefits

I'm interested.

Here are a few of the membership benefits: www.nachi.org/benefits.htm

Welcome.

Turns out that you've got me motivated.

I can't wait until the plate is passed for funds to smoke that sick patent.

Marc

[Gromicko]

Turns out that you've got me motivated.

www.nachi.org/benefits.htm has that effect on inspectors. Welcome. I see you are in Louisiana. You can now get all your Louisiana-approved continuing education online for free: http://www.nachi.org/lousiana-approved- ... ourses.htm

[kurt]

Oh for Gods sake, it's tired out videos, garden variety promotional flak, and educational enticements for dweebs.

I thought you said there were benefits. You're peddling tired out stuff like ASHI, only they got better promotion and presentation. And a lobbyist.

ASHI has a lobbyist, a presence with HUD, and national recognition with the NAR. And recognition by nationally recognized accrediting agencies.

In 27 years, I've had a couple handfulls of customers ask about ASHI, but not even once about Nachi. Where's the presence, other than to a bunch of us dweebs?

You can say anything you want within the dweeb universe, but everyone knows you really don't have anything outside of dweebland. So, why should I give a shit?

And, where's the State CE credit stuff? Why would anyone subject themselves to crotch pit HI educational fare if it wasn't at least going to get them CE's for the State?

Did I miss it somewhere.....(?)....

So, I'm serious, show me something that's attractive that isn't what every other dweeb outfit is flogging.