David Meiland Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I saw this a couple of days ago while doing an air leakage inspection in a new, small vacation cabin. There are a lot of 15- and 20-amp AFCI/GFCI (or are they combo?) breakers in this panel, and they generate a LOT of heat. There was nothing on in the cabin when I got there, and the only thing I ran is my blower door fan. Not sure how much power this consumes, but I imagine it's fairly significant. Click to Enlarge 30.05 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Inside... Click to Enlarge 17.34 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 A dual purpose (GFCI/AFCI) breaker sold by Eaton requires 1.3 watts of power for the operation of it's circuits. That's a very small number. Pretty sensitive IR camera you got there. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Inside... Click to Enlarge 17.34 KB Bright colors are meaningless. What are the temperatures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Ambient air temperature inside was 73, outside was 70. This image was taken after the BD fan had been running a while, and it definitely added a bit of heat to the panel, perhaps counteracted by the cool air being pulled into the panel via the crawl space. Marc's number is interesting to me. If it's 1.3 watts per breaker, and there are ten such breakers in the panel, and there are 19 such cabins in the resort, that's close to 2200 KwH per year that they are spending just to power the breakers themselves, or about $183 in our market. Click to Enlarge 23.93 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Sounds about right. See it this way: it helps warm the place in the winter, reducing the heating bill[] Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ambient air temperature inside was 73, outside was 70. This image was taken after the BD fan had been running a while, and it definitely added a bit of heat to the panel, perhaps counteracted by the cool air being pulled into the panel via the crawl space. Marc's number is interesting to me. If it's 1.3 watts per breaker, and there are ten such breakers in the panel, and there are 19 such cabins in the resort, that's close to 2200 KwH per year that they are spending just to power the breakers themselves, or about $183 in our market. Click to Enlarge 23.93 KB I wouldn't call that a "lot" of heat. The hottest thing in there is cooler than a baby with a fever. That also doesn't seem particularly expensive to me. It comes out to about $10 per cabin per year. And, as Marc pointed out, during the winter, it offsets heating costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ambient air temperature inside was 73, outside was 70. This image was taken after the BD fan had been running a while, and it definitely added a bit of heat to the panel, perhaps counteracted by the cool air being pulled into the panel via the crawl space. Marc's number is interesting to me. If it's 1.3 watts per breaker, and there are ten such breakers in the panel, and there are 19 such cabins in the resort, that's close to 2200 KwH per year that they are spending just to power the breakers themselves, or about $183 in our market. Click to Enlarge 23.93 KB I wouldn't call that a "lot" of heat. The hottest thing in there is cooler than a baby with a fever. That also doesn't seem particularly expensive to me. It comes out to about $10 per cabin per year. And, as Marc pointed out, during the winter, it offsets heating costs. Hopefully they have insulated the wall behind the panels, or a good portion of that heat will be lost to the outside. Our new codes here require insulation behind panels in exterior walls. Electronics in general are powered by these cheap wall wart power supplies that waste a lot of juice. No surprise the new breakers do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Now I'm curious to know if they consume more power when there's a load on the circuit. Anyone happen to know, or do I have to go out and buy an AFCI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Now I'm curious to know if they consume more power when there's a load on the circuit. Anyone happen to know, or do I have to go out and buy an AFCI? I doubt the electronic circuitry draws more power when the breaker is loaded but the other components (found on all circuit breakers) are still generate the same heat (in proportion to the square of the load current) that's passing through the device. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The total thermal range of that image is 27?. The coldest point isn't in the enclosure, so the panel range is maybe 22?, is that even significant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Tom, I think it is. When you're inside a house doing infrared, the panel cover is often room temperature and barely even shows up on your screen. This one was quite warm from the start. Marc and Jim are correctly pointing out that the energy used offsets heating, which in this case is electric wall heaters so it's a 1:1 trade-off during heating season. In an A/C climate you'll be buying cooling to offset this heating. Not a lot of watts, just something I found surprising and interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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