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dtontarski
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As I understand it, 120/240 volt appliances (ovens & dryers) have required separate grounded & grounding conductors since 1996. Does this apply to all appliances whether they are free-standing or wall or counter installed? I always call out the fact that the circuit wiring and receptacle outlet will require updating if and when my buyer wishes to update older electric appliances when I see the 2+ground terminated in the panel.

Just yesterday I saw new cabinet and counter installed double ovens and range top, yet the old 2+ground cable remained. I called this out as requiring further evaluation. There were other electrical issues, so I'm not requiring sparky to come to solely evaluate this. Was I right in doing so...or as I queried above...is there some exception for appliances that are not free standing?

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Originally posted by dtontarski

As I understand it, 120/240 volt appliances (ovens & dryers) have required separate grounded & grounding conductors since 1996. Does this apply to all appliances whether they are free-standing or wall or counter installed?

The rule applies to all appliances regardless of whether they're free-standing or wall mounted (250.140). However, there's also an exception for existing branch circuit installations.

I always call out the fact that the circuit wiring and receptacle outlet will require updating if and when my buyer wishes to update older electric appliances when I see the 2+ground terminated in the panel.

It's not "required" by the NEC. Unless it's your intention to require the rewiring of a circuit that the NEC specifically allows, you might want to reconsider that particular recommendation.

Just yesterday I saw new cabinet and counter installed double ovens and range top, yet the old 2+ground cable remained. I called this out as requiring further evaluation. There were other electrical issues, so I'm not requiring sparky to come to solely evaluate this. Was I right in doing so...or as I queried above...is there some exception for appliances that are not free standing?

Here's how the exception is worded:

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Blah, blah, blah, ground them properly, blah, blah, blah.

Exception: For existing branch circuit installations only where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be grounded to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following conditions are met.

(1) The supply circuit is 120/2240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire; or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wye-connected system.

(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10AWG copper or 8AWG aluminum.

(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service equipment.

(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of the equipment are bonded to the equipment.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Hi,

I'm not Jim, but when I have that kind of a situation I just ask myself what's safer. If it's a new appliance like a range or a dryer with a 4-pronged plug, I think back peddling to a 3-pronged plug is probably not as safe as leaving the 4-pronged plug and recommending that they have that plug, and cable if necessary, updated so it will properly accommodate new appliances.

OT - OF!!!

M.

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Originally posted by hausdok

Hi,

I'm not Jim, but when I have that kind of a situation I just ask myself what's safer. If it's a new appliance like a range or a dryer with a 4-pronged plug, I think back peddling to a 3-pronged plug is probably not as safe as leaving the 4-pronged plug and recommending that they have that plug, and cable if necessary, updated so it will properly accommodate new appliances.

OT - OF!!!

M.

When you buy a range or dryer, it doesn't come with a cord at all. You buy the cord separately, selecting one that fits the type of receptacle that's in your house.

For the most part, no one rewires a house to accommodate a new range or dryer.

Remember, the NEC rule specifically allows older three-wire circuits to remain in service when new appliances are installed.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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