m.s.j Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 In battery, after finishing of its construction and positive & negative electrode creation, why we will need an external electrical lead (for example copper wires) for transmission of energy between two poles? Why no short circuit occurs between positive and negative electrodes through battery electrolyte and why electrical potential difference is stable in battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homnspector Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 If poles close enough and battery powerful enough, no need for copper wire. Spark jump across thin air! Air not good conductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The middle is neutral much like the center of the earth in relation to gravity.? Interesting question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Fine, then at least let's get it right. It's not like the center of the earth and gravity. We will not run out of gravity. The anode and cathode of a battery are separated by a nonconductor. The ONLY path is the one supplied by a conductor between the poles. Once the anode has been sacrificed (no more e-) then it is dead. The earth won't run out of sacrificial gravitons (at least that's the theory) so elevator travel is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The earth will not run out of electricity either, or did you forget even our bodies contain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Originally posted by chicago The earth will not run out of electricity either, or did you forget even our bodies contain it. I never said the earth would run out of electricity. Why do you believe I thought that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Ok.. compare to a bar magnet which has no insulator. Speaking of which can you name one material that blocks magnetism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Bob - Can you explain how the earth generates electricity? Further, why will that process never end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Originally posted by chicago Ok.. compare to a bar magnet which has no insulator. Speaking of which can you name one material that blocks magnetism. Sure, the earth is a really big magnet. And no, I can't name one material that blocks magnetism. (Reroute, yes. Block, no.) But what's this got to do with a battery? A battery's anode and cathode are insulated from each other. I was just letting MSJ know that this fact keeps anode/cathode from shorting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I was hoping M.S .J would jump in. As far as magnetisim goes,if you find an insulator you would be a rich man just from the energy that could be produced. As far as electricity goes the history channel has been doing some good stuff on Ben Franklin lately.They say his theories of grounding hold true today. He also is credited as being a pioneer in battery research.The term was actually an offshoot from the military in regards to a group of cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.s.j Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 In the battery, the positive and negative polarities are relative concepts. In deed, in battery system one of the two poles is for example negative and the other is more negative in comparison with the electrolyte material. In fact, in a separated battery bank after electrochemical stability, the charge transmissions between electrolyte media and both of two electrodes will be stopped and opposite transmission current will be impossible. A similar mechanical phenomenon is heat transmission between two metal rods with different thermal conductivity coefficiency that are connected to a very hot metal plate. The thermal difference at the end of rods can cause the heat transfer through a metal wire between them, but the heat transmission between two rod is impossible through the hot metal plate because the plate is warmer than both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The hot plate being used as a metaphor for negative and positive charge seperation is quite educational if true. But the explanation also leads me to think negative and positive are not true opposites,but in your opinion simply the same charge with one side having more charge than the other.Not a home inspection topic but very interesting once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 There is nothing interesting here. Transparent obfuscation of simple theory. (And potential pruning.)[:-weepn] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Originally posted by ozofprev There is nothing interesting here. Transparent obfuscation of simple theory. (And potential pruning.)[:-weepn] I wouldn't call it obfuscation, just a change in perspective. These kinds of puzzles can help people to understand basic theories in new ways. Unless Mike objects, I'll let this thread stand. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 No objection, as long as he keeps it basic. The other one about causal stresses in a nuclear reactor plant was just way too far over our (Well, at least mine) heads to remain. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 No problem. So where does the thread go from here? Energy flows from 'high concentration' to 'low concentration.' It won't go the other way. The examples demonstrated energy as electric potential and as heat. No, heat won't go through a plate that is hotter than the two rods. But it won't go through the metal wire either if the wire is hotter than the rods. (Omission of that fact made me think of this as a sort of obfuscated Rube Goldberg.) Next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Chew Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Originally posted by hausdok No objection, as long as he keeps it basic. The other one about causal stresses in a nuclear reactor plant was just way too far over our (Well, at least mine) heads to remain. OT - OF!!! M. Bah! This morning I was proofreading a post I wrote that answered that puzzle (about the nuclear power plant) and when I went to post it, Mike had pruned and locked the thread... [:-weepn] (It's ok.... I agree the topic had nothing to do with home inspections...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Brandon do it over . if you think hard about this it is actualy interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 One rod will not be as hot at the end since it does not carry the heat,yet if a wire is connected between the two ends the wire will get as hot as the higher temp side and transmit the heat to the cooler side if I under stand this right you can substitute heat for electricity in the same way water in a plumbing pipe is often used to describe electric. Just a simple way to think of it for us morons. Interesting.Never had that sort of thought process before in regards to a battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_ran Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Originally posted by chicago Ok.. compare to a bar magnet which has no insulator. Speaking of which can you name one material that blocks magnetism. I don't know what it is but there is something that will block a magnet. I had a hard drive die several years ago and being the inquisitive feller that I am I wanted to see how it worked. I was surprised to see not one but two magnets (remember that magnets near hard drives, cassettes, tapes, etc. is not a good thing). These magnets had about the same surface area as a nickle about 1/16" thick and were mounted on swing arms. The swing arms were made of metal and there was no magnetism transferred to the back side of these arms. The magnets were so strog that when they were put together, you had to either slide or pry them apart, you could not pull them apart but you couldn't even pick up grinder flakes with the back side of the swing arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_ran Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 In regards to the battery, there is an insulator between the plates. But remember that just about everything conducts electricity, just at different rates. Metal is highly conductive and rubber is barely conductive. Leave the battery in the drawer long enough and it will be dead when you need it. Now don't go and start pulling you ohm meters out to dispute this because they won't read anything. They are not accurate enough to read the current draw through rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Originally posted by jon_ran I don't know what it is but there is something that will block a magnet. No, there isn't, but it is easy to be fooled by observations like the one you describe. Since this is not a physics forum, here is a link with a simple explanation of what you are really seeing - shielding. http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae512.cfm Chicago, there are no morons here. And I agree this subject is supremely interesting, but I don't see how we can explore it without going outside TIJ scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 When you find the material which blocks magnetisim let me know so we can get rich together. Imagine having to permenant magnets with a strong pull blocked and unblocked by an insulator.You would then solve every energy problem known to mankind. When I was younger I thought a weak electro magnet with reversing polarity held the key. A motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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