Brian G

Originally posted by randynavarro What's the "we?" My bad.....nope, I don't have one yet. Yet. Brian G. Contributions Accepted [:-dev3]

I saw a water heater yesterday where the cold line coming in was fairly hot to the touch, while the hot line going out was barely warm. I made sure they were connected to the correct ports, but what in the world...? Both lines were PEX. Seems like something along these lines came up on a recent thread, but I can't find it. Brian G. Why Was Cold Hot? [?]

You're correct, it doesn't matter if it's the service equipment or not. Brian G. A Panelboard Is A Panelboard [:-star]

The only OS I've used is XP Pro. I had one "fatal error" incident, whatever the hell that is, which my Maxtor saved me on. Other than that and minor glitches, I've had no problems to speak of. I won't "upgrade" until I can't function with what I have anymore. Then I also plan to go Linux. Brian G. New & Hot, Don't Mean Squat [^]

Me either. I suppose it's possible to underestimate some of the idiots doing things these days, but it ain't easy. Brian G. Cut & Glue Is Too Complex? [:-dunce]

Okay, what the heck. I ordered one. If it really works and I like it I'll have to do some rewiring, since I have 5 - 6 phones around the house, but if I can get phone service for $20 per year I'll do the dang rewiring. Brian G. In The Land Vonage Hasn't Discovered Yet [:-weepn]

Get the hell outta here......can't be. Brian G. If It Seems To Good To Be True, I Hope It Is [:-bigeyes

It's probably all in vain, but you can try the "liability card" when talking to a builder. I'd calmly say something like "I've explained that this arrangement isn't safe from a fire safety standpoint, and I've said so in writing as well, so if you ignore that and the most widely used building standards, you should be prepared for a very embarrassing and expensive trip to court if anything happens here. It's on you, not me." If he then takes a swing and skips one off your collar bone, you've got him. [] The client really should be the one to fight this battle. They have the leverage (the money), and they're going to live there. Brian G. "Standards" Aren't Just Songs Everyone Knows [:-sing]

This may be a silly question, but..... Does "inside a building" include the crawl space? I had one recently with a mix of PVC and the old galvanized steel running around under the house, but only the galvanized went through the floor. Brian G. I'm Guessing "Yes", But I'm Guessing [?]

Originally posted by charlieb The model I have has red and green markers to confirm the catches engage. I haven't seen one of those. Who makes it? I figured the doughnuts were still easy prey, even for a half-crippled Charlie. Brian G. Doughnuts Run Soooooo Slow []

Originally posted by Jim Katen That's a special, fancy dedicated TPR discharge tube. I see them all the time on manufactured home water heaters. They come with the galvanized fitting at one end. All-righty then, thanks. Never seen one of those, but then the few calls I've ever had for inspections on manufactured houses all evaporated. Brian G. They Are What They Are [8]

It's only one of my personal opinion's, but I think a water heater in an attic is nuts. Just give up the 2' x 2' space in a closet or utility room somewhere for Pete's sake. Brian G. 1 Spurting Leak = Disaster [:-dunce]

Originally posted by charlieb I sit here typing with a cast on my shattered right ankle. Type 1A extend and climb now retired. The catches failed. I felt one side fail and a moment later the other side gave. Sounds nasty. I've been lucky; never had a broken bone. Don't blame the ladder Charlie. It's all those doughnuts and pastries that commit suicide in your mouth. [] Brian G. Or Maybe It Was the Ladder [:-wiltel]

Originally posted by kurt .....have certified hairdresser look at it, etc. Funny you should say that. Before licensing came in here there was a hairdresser/home inspector in a town 20 miles away. No kidding. [:-banghea Brian G. One-Stop Shopping: Perms and Property Inspections [}]

What is that on the relief valve? It looks white, like PVC, which as John noted, is not kosher for that use (gotta be hot water rated). Brian G. Ya, Just Look at My Big Pex [:-magnify

John pretty much has it. I report anything I find that a client might want to know about, which I take to be anything I would want an HI to tell me about if I were the potential buyer/client. Some people will get mad at you occasionally about stuff like this, but they won't be your client. Brian G. Full & Total Disclosure, Always [:-thumbu]

Originally posted by inspecthistoric I use Firefox, so it doesn't work for me. What sounds does it make for those really goofy avatars for Scottpat and Jim Morrison? They make a wretching noise. [:-yuck][] Brian G. Mine Roars [:-tiger]

Fair enough, you've answered my question. I certainly agree that GFCI's are a mature technology, far, far better than they used to be years ago, and they've saved countless lives since they entered the code, I just don't trust them not to nuisance trip as much as you do. I'm a big fan of the new requirements to make them unusable if they're wired wrong or failing, though I haven't seen any discussion of how well they're actually working; have you? I knew Douglas was on that panel and voted for the changes, but I didn't know he proposed the changes himself. I have great respect for you, Douglas, Kurt, and the NEC in general, but where I disagree I can't say otherwise; lip service isn't respect. I will say my regard for the NEC as a whole is at a low ebb right now, between this, the AFCI debacle, and the small handful of things I already disagreed with them about. I'm sure they're all up late worrying about it. [:-sleep] I've heard the thing about "written in blood" before, which I don't doubt for a minute. I wouldn't want to see things go very far that way at all, but I'm skeptical of solutions where no demonstrable problem can be found. That and the uneven economic factors leave me where I am. Brian G. So It Goes [8]

Originally posted by Jim Katen If they're not located in such a location, why would you want them to be GFCI protected? I don't understand the point behind the question. If this is the case for garage door openers.... If the GFCI trips, it's because there's a ground fault. The trip might save her life if the door or its track has become energized. ....wouldn't it also be true of virtually every other motorized appliance in a house, no matter where they were? Wouldn't the average homeowner be at far greater risk from their refrigerator or washing machine, considering how much more frequently they touch those appliances than a garage door or opener? Brian G. Hmmmm.....Bad Winding Insulation + Washing Machine + Wife = New Life (in prison) []

Originally posted by kurt Well, now it's name calling. This... "I can only assume you're being purposely obtuse" ...is name calling? Come now. If that quailifies as name calling in Chicago, you could really get your feelings hurt down in Mississippi. Brian, you're more worked up about GFCI's, and impolite in the pushback, than about religious differences. These changes really irritate me, but if you're reading my posts with a half-shouting voice in your head, you're mistaken. The only place I see that could be considered rude in content is where I suggested the supporters of the changes should be willing to implement those requirements in their own homes. Maybe I could have said it a little nicer way, but there's nothing wrong with the idea of grown men walking the talk rather than just talking it, is there? Like I said, if you don't want to, that's your prerogative. My initial comment about specious reasoning pertained to the acceptance as fact, of certain comments by folks in condo's and/or builders of homes. The point, if there is one, is that phenomenon of "nuisance trips", may or may not be a nuisance, but an underlying dangerous condition. It takes further investigation to know. For the outlet on the ceiling that's been replaced by the builder 3 times, did anyone perform any in depth investigation? If you look at my initial response, I also noted everyone's right to differ, and didn't dispute any of your points regarding condos, motors, or investigating causes. What I disagreed with in your post was "All benefit, no harm". From that, it progressed pretty rapidly to "I'm not gonna, and I'm not telling anyone else to either", and "prove it by showing me the dead people". Paraphrased certainly, but accurate in tone. In tone, I'll accept that characterization. I've been just as bulldogish as you. What else is new? This is how you and I are wired (obviously). I guess I'm obtuse. Name calling!!! [] We're running in circles at this point. You can have the last word. Brian G. As Long As That Word Isn't "A**hole" [:-dev3]

Originally posted by Jim Katen Well, I have two fridges, one freezer and a garage door opener that are each plugged into GFCI-protected receptacles. No problems lately. Okie-doke. That's one, and I applaud your consistency. Years ago, I had a freezer that was plugged into a GFCI-protected circuit that included my porch receptacles. I once left an extension cord plugged into one of the porch receptacles and, during a rainstorm, the end of the cord was soaked. The GFCI tripped and I lost the contents of the freezer before I realized what had happened. After that, I made sure that the freezer receptacle was protected only by its own GFCI that didn't protect anything else. No problems since. I think you've been lucky, but that's neither here nor there. By the way, earlier in this thread you said, "I've never heard anyone claim GFCI's never nuisance trip before this thread." As far as I can see, no one ever claimed that GFCIs never nuisance trip. What I have repeatedly said -- apparantly to deaf ears -- is that properly wired motors, in good condition, won't trip a GFCI. If there is one piece of information that I'd like people to remember about this entire thread it's that motors don't trip GFCIs. Fair enough. My apologies, and I stand corrected on that point. So Jim.... Does that mean you would also support requiring GFCI protection on all motorized appliances, for the reasons you've already laid out? Brian G. A Fair Question, I Hope [?]

Originally posted by kurt ....and the ever popular, "I'm not gonna put it on MY freezer, By God!" argument. That one would part of my arguement, but the "by god" and exclamation point are yours alone. I'm still trying to wrap my head around "Where are the deaths these changes are gonna save us from in the future?" Ah, Brother Kurt. Knowing your command of the English language and having already further clarified that statement, I can only assume you're being purposely obtuse. I can't stop you. _________________________________________________________________________ There's not much left I'd care to say at this point, but I will submit this to the peanut gallery. Consider these two statements: A. I agree with the changes in the rules, and the arguements made in support of them. B. I wouldn't comply with them myself, if it meant plugging my own freezer into a GFCI outlet. Ladies and gentlemen, in any arena ruled strictly by logic and reason, these two statements directly contradict each other. If "A" is true, then "B" cannot be true. If "B" is true, then "A" cannot be true. It's as simple as that, so I ask the entire board this: Is there anyone out there who would plug their own freezer into a GFCI outlet? If so, please speak up. Brian G. Waiting To See.... [:-magnify

If you're not sure about the term "service disconnect", it's the first place all the power can be turned off. In some cases that can be a panel with only one large breaker in it, or an older-style knife disconnect switch, with no branch wiring at all. Doesn't matter; any panel after that point has to be wired as Jim described, whether 3 inches away or at the other end of the house. If you get into panels located in separate buildings that can change (sometimes). I'd estimate 2/3rds of the sub panels I look at are wired wrong, for one reason or another. I hope it's better elsewhere. Brian G. Just More Job Security []

Originally posted by kurt You're asking and answering questions in the same sentence. I am? Point out one for me. Asking questions like "Where are the deaths these changes are gonna save us from in the future?" doesn't even make any sense. I beg to differ. If the rules as they stood were safe, why are the changes necessary? If they weren't safe, where's the evidence? Asking for evidence to support positions isn't nonsensical. I think you're jumping to conclusions that are not relevant. Who really cares what an HI does or does not do w/their own freezer(?). And no, I wouldn't put my garage freezer on a GFCI, but what possible bearing does that have on anything? I'm sure you get my point. These changes call on the public to do something dumb, and those who wouldn't do it in their own home know it. I think the group wouldn't plug their own freezer into a GFCI includes most of the people who voted for the changes, but maybe I'm wrong. Last time I checked, we were in the information business. I provide information. Folks can do w/it what they want. If that information is my own personal bias against a very well researched safety item, it's not very good information, is it? I'm not biased against GFCI's. I love 'em. They're fantastic safety devices, that have saved who knows how many lives since they came into the market; no question. All I'm saying is these changes don't make good sense, and GFCI's aren't infallible. Balanced information, supplied to intelligent folks, is the best thing. Lacking proof of intelligent life in the universe, I stick to what holds up in court. My personal bias ain't gonna hold up. I'm not much concerned about what will hold up in court on this score. If rules being rules is enough for you, whether you would follow them yourself or not, I understand. But I can't go with you this time, I need it to make sense. I need to agree with it before I can push it to others. Brian G. To Each His Own [8]