RobC Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Have a look and tell me what you see The level is 6' and the rise was 4" Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable1_M.jpg 126.77 KB Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable2_M.jpg 121.05 KB Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable3_M.jpg 174.19 KB Anything else? I've battened down the hatches, I think this is going to be a rough ride (sail). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I agree with you completely, that's way too shallow of a slope for shingles. That's one of these ridiculous roof designs that's dictated by the way they want the house to look...bad, bad design, IMHO. Brian G. Sufficiently Sloped to Drain, a Fairly Well-Established Principle I'd Say [:-dunce] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Hi Rob, Any chance that that area has been completely underlain with some ice and water shield? OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I don't have the specific manufacturers name on hand but I remember reading shingles installed on pitches less than 4/12 was allowed if a double layer of felt is installed. The ice shield seems like a better solution. A little copper would look "lovely" there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 That's right Brian, the roof measures 3/4":12 or what we call a flat roof (<2:12) that requires a single ply waterproof membrane. A shedding roof is not allowed in this instance. Mike that's the problem with visual inspections. I observed moisture under the shingles (flashlight pic) that shouldn't have been there and of course we don't know how far up the slope the roof is protected, if it is. Charlie, You might be thinking of a low slope roof (2:12 - 4:12). Use caution here as some manufacturers will reduce the warranties from 30 years to 12 when applied on low slopes with asphalt interlayment. Overall, that was the easy part. I made mention of something else. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul MacLean Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Around here (no really hard freezes to worry about) that valley would most likely have been galvanized metal. Those shingles are a roof leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Rushing Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 From the 2003 IRC. - R905.2 Asphalt shingles. The installation of asphalt shingles shall comply with the provisions of this section. - - R905.2.2 Slope. Asphalt shingles shall only be used on roof slopes of two units vertical in 12 units horizontal (2:12) or greater. For roof slopes from two units vertical in 12 units horizontal (2:12) up to four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (4:12), double underlayment application is required in accordance with Section R905.2.7. Richard R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I'll try "I made mention of something else. Any ideas?" for 200 Rob. What is id="blue">Inadequate ventilation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Na! This is brand new Never heard of it before. AND I might be the only guy that's discovered it. Clue, My conversation with the buyer (from England) You have a Jaguar with bald tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Allright then, Let's try this Download Attachment: RoofingRidge_M.jpg 147.89 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Well, two things strike me from that last photo. I don't recall ever seeing multi-layer ridge caps before (unless that's just a trick of coloring to match the others), and I can see thin little hairline cracks in some of those shingles. Brian G. I'm-a Lookin', I Jus' Don't Know If I'm-a Seeing [:-magnify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Rob C, Did you say brand new, as to say it hasn't been through a snow covering and melt yet? The little valley will have no more than half the service life of the rest of the roof. Just teel them it should be fine for a "dry weather" roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Brian, The multi colored cap as you call it, is what we call an architectural grade shingle mostly of the 25 year variety (available up to 50 years). Here is how we do it here, Download Attachment: AsphaltRidgeCap.JPG 301.74 KB Your micro inspection is excellent. Now do the macro You're almost there.[^] Jim, The roof is about 6 years old, I'm with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Will someone please guess right! I can't stand it much longer and, as a Brit, I need to know why one of Coventry's finest has less than perfect footwear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Originally posted by RobC The multi colored cap as you call it, is what we call an architectural grade shingle... Actually I called them "multi-layer", my generic term for use with clients, but I'm familiar with the proper term as well. Sorry, force of habit. Now do the macro You're almost there. They don't appear to be layered backwards, so unless the dastardly fiends went against the prevailing winds I'm at a loss. Never seen that before...I'd love to hear the grinding and gnashing of teeth at the realtors offices if I wrote up cap shingles for being laid against the prevailing wind. Hah! [:-banghea [:-dev3] So enough already, spill the beans and put poor Richard out of his misery. I suspect he's unable to fully enjoy his tea until he knows the fate of his fellow Brit. [:-scared] Brian G. "Against the Wind" Is a Favorite Bob Seager Song [:-headpho[:-sing] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hockstein Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Originally posted by RobC Have a look and tell me what you see The level is 6' and the rise was 4" Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable1_M.jpg 126.77 KB Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable2_M.jpg 121.05 KB Download Attachment: RoofingVulnerable3_M.jpg 174.19 KB Anything else? I've battened down the hatches, I think this is going to be a rough ride (sail). I see a lot of other potential clients in the neighborhood. Do I hear Class action?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Argabright Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I agree with what the others have said. The water runoff from steeper pitched sides will be forced under the flat section. I also think that it should be a single ply membrane that extends far under the shingles and should be sealed. Any shingles that might be installed over a single ply membrane would put lots of little holes in that nice seamless roofing material. Maybe they could use construction adhesive to glue them in place. The cap shingles appear to have a very narrow gap for air movement. Were they applied over a conventional ridge vent but cut to hang over the edges? With warm weather did they sag and have covered the opening of the ridge vent? Just my .015 worth or a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 David wrote: Any shingles that might be installed over a single ply membrane would put lots of little holes in that nice seamless roofing material.Sure, that's the whole reason that manufacturer's specify bituthene under low-sloped applications. It seals around the nails. Malarkey makes an alaskan shingle which is designed for low slope/high wind applications. It looks like a conventional shingle but is made from modbit. Even malarkey recommends a bituthene ice and water membrane when it's used in a less than 2:12 application. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I thought by posting the lone ridge cap photo and comparing the two roofs someone would have noticed the discrepancy. I have to admit as I walked over it several times it never occurred to me to ask the obvious question. Has the roof been covered with the same quality material throughout? The answer is NO. The ridge caps have been cut from a lesser quality, smooth contractor grade shingle, most likely the 15 year variety. So we have a 'Jag' with bald tires. Premium quality roof with contractor grade caps. Another creative way to save a buck. And yes, every house I observed in the circle had the same problem. Incidentally, the next day on a pre possession in another part of the city , I found the same thing. So what's next, I ask? Architectural shingles on the front slope and roll roofing on the rear. So there you have it, one more thing to be on the lookout for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Rob C., Wait just a minute, friend. I thought you said earlier the cap was made of the "multi-layered", so-called "architectural type", that explains the "multi-colored" appearance in the photo. Now you tell us they are the plain 3-tab kind? Whatever. I'm not a roofer, but I've been told those architectural style cost a little more just to pay for the extended warranty, which, in any case, is prorated thru time. All the so-called warranty does is ensure that if they fail in 20 yrs or so the customer will return to buy the same brand just to get his little pro-rated discount. The extra cost up front is just a prepayment on the return trip. The other "advantage" to this type roof is that it loads the structure down by a few more pounds per square due to the extra ply. I have seen more than a few roofs where part of the cover was new, and part was left in place. Such a case will occur on the pictured roof when the flat little "valley" area starts to leak soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I have a file open with the "same" situation; 15yr on barrel eybrow windows and 40yr laminate on roof. Mfgr recommends this application when using laminate(s). They prefer their 40yr shingle not be fastened around radius smaller than 16", but maintain the product will perform. Just looks like sh**. I don't know how the court will see this situation as it is a jury trial. I am stressing the actual mechanics of the situation; laminate tabs curled up, water entry, some tabs are 1/2" - 3/4" curled up, etc.. The contractor started to fasten the tab/corners down with #4 box nails, but I managed to get him to stop. Will keep you posted as to outcome - trial in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Hi Rob, Have you checked with the roofer to determine the brand name of this product and then with the manufacturer to ensure that these aren't accessory shingles designed specificaly for this purpose? Certainteed makes a cap shingle specifically for this purpose. It is colored and shaded to match the architectural grade shingles and specifically made to snap off evenly so no cutting is required, thus saving labor. If Certainteed is doing it,you can bet your bippy other companies are too. Hmmmm? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Jim, Ah! I see what went wrong, Brian and I were having a conversation about the Roofing Ridge_M photo, unrelated to the black roof in question and discussing the kind of ridge cap that he typically doesnââ¬â¢t see in his market. I submitted the picture to illustrate the proper application for this kind of roofing material and to show that it can be done. Sorry for confusion. Incidentally, Roofing contractor warranty: 2 years on labor only, that is if theyââ¬â¢re still in business. Manufacturer warranty: depreciated over the expected life of the shingle. A while back I discovered several shingles with a manufacturerââ¬â¢s flaw. I called them and was informed that flaws were common at the point where they join two felts together and they would be happy to replace the half dozen shingles at a cost of $100.00 as an administrative charge [:-bigeyes to process the claim. Now, thatââ¬â¢s a warrantee for ya! Les, Thatââ¬â¢s exactly whatââ¬â¢s happening here. I installed this roofing on my own home (8:12) 10 years ago and didnââ¬â¢t have any problem. What Iââ¬â¢m guessing is that they are no longer bonding the individual plies and as a result the top laminate is not bending with the rest of the shingle. The problem is made worse during cold application. So they've opted to use a cheaper shingle. How do they cap the ridge on your 40 shingle application? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Download Attachment: em887.JPG 635.55 KB Typical of my file. Rob, they cut the laminate shingle for cap material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobC Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Mike, The roofer is not known to me. Iââ¬â¢ve contacted a few major roofing suppliers and theyââ¬â¢re not aware of any special accessory shingles. It could be specific to Certainteed Iââ¬â¢m aware of the (Malarkey) ââ¬Ëraisedââ¬â¢ cap shingle but honestly Iââ¬â¢ve never seen it installed. Les, There may be more to your story than your photo but wouldnââ¬â¢t you think a smart roofer would fix that and avoid litigation? Just a thought In my experience, roofers will usually cut field material shingles to make up site cap shingles on site however, if youââ¬â¢ll notice the cap shingles have been cut incorrectly, they need to be cut at a slight angle in accordance with manufacturerââ¬â¢s instructions. From my research, the roof would appear to be a 30 year laminated fiberglass shingle NOW, here is the interesting part in all this. Apparently, the cap doesnââ¬â¢t have to be 30 years. It can be 25 years and the manufacturer will warranty the roof just the same. The best three tab shingle available here is 30 years. So, Iââ¬â¢m told that a 50 year roof with a 30 year cap is acceptable and the warranty in full force. I find it difficult to believe that one component of a system can be of lesser quality and not affect the overall performance of that system. Any thoughts? Or I am just being too grumpy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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