John Kogel Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 This home was built in 1970, just before manufactured trusses became the standard. I think the ridge is about 4' above the ceiling joists and the rafter ties cut the space in half. I took a half dozen pics from the hatch, including the area and a plumbing vent above the bathroom, and moved on. Got to the bathroom and saw a ceiling fan. There was no sign of a vent stack in the attic. The metal pipe I did see is all the way in the kitchen. Checked the kitchen, yep there's the metal pipe going into the attic. The soffits are all stuccoed over except for a couple of vent holes at the ends. So I spread my sheet over the clothes in the closet again and pulled out the ladder and opened the hatch again. Then I hurdled over 8 of the rafter ties and got this great picture of a 40 year old dust plume. Click to Enlarge 55.64?KB Click to Enlarge 56.95?KB Click to Enlarge 61.06?KB Click to Enlarge 68.62?KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yeah, Hauled my butt through one of those the other day. The roof had a 10-degree pitch (2.18:12 slope) - trusses. 10 year old deck. It was about 18-inches from the ceiling joists to the underside of the top chord at the apex. Ridge vent and eave vents and two gable end vents. Bath fans venting into the attic space. Pieces of fungi-covered delaminated plywood everywhere that had been left over from the previous roof deck. Every single gusset plate I saw was separated from it's truss. Someone had made a feeble attempt to nail the gusset plates back and they apparently didn't know how to swing a hammer 'cuz the nails weren't even driven in all the way. I could actually jiggle the diagonal webs with my hand. Incipient rot in the truss chords. They look fine but the cell structure was no longer capable of gripping those pressed-in gusset plates. The roofer who put the new deck on a decade ago thought he had the solution by putting a ridge vent on but he was too dim-witted to figure out that if the plywood deck was completely rotted that the rot had probably travelled into the trusses; and he obviously had no idea that venting fans into an attic and leaving gable end vents open when there are ridge vents was about as dumb as he was. They'd remodeled the home and converted one of four upstairs bedrooms into the large bath for the master bedroom suite. Guess where the attic hatch is? It used to be in a closet in that fourth bedroom - now it's in the ceiling of the, wait for it......shower. Entered 8ft. from the north gable end wall and hauled my ample butt over twenty of those bottom chords on my stomach to get all the way to the other end. Couldn't roll completely over to take these photos. Had a little board, 6-inches wide by about 26 inches long that I hauled along with me and would rest on top of it before moving on to the next truss. Like a chubby inch worm - took probably 20 to 30 minutes in oppressive heat. I (we) don't get paid enough for this s***. Click to Enlarge 36.36?KB Click to Enlarge 37.75?KB Click to Enlarge 32.03?KB Click to Enlarge 31.58?KB Click to Enlarge 37.82 KB Click to Enlarge 39.56?KB Click to Enlarge 40.96?KB ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Did you report the improper installation of the rafter ties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The white residue identifies the incipient rot? So if I stab it with a screwdriver, it'll give? Just looking for a reliable way to identify it. I've seen it many time in crawls here but never knew it was a fungus based decay. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Did you report the improper installation of the rafter ties? No, sir, I did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The white residue identifies the incipient rot? So if I stab it with a screwdriver, it'll give? Just looking for a reliable way to identify it. I've seen it many time in crawls here but never knew it was a fungus based decay. Marc Nah, that's just some surface fungi of some sort. The incipient rot is in the wood. Take an ice pick, insert it perpedicular to the grain and snap it sideways. If the wood breaks out as a long sliver it's OK if it breaks off clean across the grain there's rot there. John, that house was built in 1963. Guess trusses debuted a little earlier around here. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 John, that house was built in 1963. Guess trusses debuted a little earlier around here. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Here, trusses before the 70's will be site-built with plywood gussets. I helped build a truss 'factory', just a big shed, in 1973, and we banged balloon trusses together with plywood gussets to build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think very carefully before entering spaces like that these days.. (And I have entered many since I started in 1995).... One time, I suited-up (Tyvek 100%, the face mask, gloves, the whole show) and entered a similarly-constricted crawl space through a standard 1950's vintage rectangular cellar window... I'm inside and proceed to systematically probe the sills/joist-ends and rim joist areas (the rims were insulated) and BANG... right into a freakin' bee's nest that 'blew up' with bees.. I skedaddled my keister out that window at super-high speed and ended up bruising the **** out of my hips in the process.. Morale of story: When entering extremely constricted space, ask yourself, "Can I get out of here relatively fast or not and safely". Often it's the 'fast exit' that cannot be accomplished well.. The Tyvek kept the bees away thankfully... but the injury on the hips lasted for a week.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Some survival tips I learned from stepping on wasp nests out in the bush - it isn't the wasps that hurt you so much as the run to escape them, like the stick in the eye or the fall over a cliff. [] If it's Yellow Jackets, 5 feet is often far enough. They'll swarm above the nest for a while, then a few scouts might find you, but you can walk away. A wasp trapped in your clothing will keep stinging until you find it and get rid of it. Bees are less of a threat in the PNW and can only sting once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Some survival tips I learned from stepping on wasp nests out in the bush - it isn't the wasps that hurt you so much as the run to escape them, like the stick in the eye or the fall over a cliff. [] If it's Yellow Jackets, 5 feet is often far enough. They'll swarm above the nest for a while, then a few scouts might find you, but you can walk away. A wasp trapped in your clothing will keep stinging until you find it and get rid of it. Bees are less of a threat in the PNW and can only sting once. I was going up a very steep roof last week and had to negotiate my way around a satellite dish hanging off the side of a dormer. I put my hand on the dish base to pull myself up and found it occupied by a bunch of wasps. They kind of tensed up but none came after me. If they had, I would have just had to endure it 'cuz I didn't have the option of running. If they'd been those blue/gray bald-faced hornets I would never have been able to get close and they'd have attacked and I would have been sliding down that sucker like a kind on a playground slide. When I see those bastards I give 'em real wide berth. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Do people buy these houses after you guys point out issues like this with the roof/attic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi David, Don't know about John's client; mine walked. He's an old client; I'd done inspections for him previously back in 2009. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Do people buy these houses after you guys point out issues like this with the roof/attic? No serious problems with my place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sometimes. If I can get folks away from the 'zoids, I talk arithmetic with them. Cost of house - Cost of Repair = real numbers to determine if it's worth messing with. I also do a quick little question-answer period where I determine if these are folks that want to be involved in the repair process, i.e., finding and qualifying contractors. Sometimes they walk, sometimes not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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