Mike Lamb Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 This panel was spray painted before the breakers were installed. 110.12 © Can contaminated areas be cleaned? Would you recommend panel replacement? My main concern is the circuit breaker contact blades. Opinions? Click to Enlarge 40.32 KB Click to Enlarge 56.51 KB Click to Enlarge 59.76 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I've had a few of those and recommended replacement of the panel, leaving the enclosure in place. If the panel isn't available anymore, replace both panel and enclosure. Someone should pay for this mistake and it shouldn't be your client. I don't want liability for suggesting cleaning it then someone comes and scratches up the protective coating on the contacts. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 The contacts 'might' have been cleaned before the breakers were installed. I think it will be up to an electrician to take a closer look and then he will make the call. I don't normally pass the buck but in this case, we don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 From a practical standpoint the contacts were cleaned when the breakers where installed, that's really not enough paint to impede an electrical connection at that tight fitting contact. From a home inspection perspective the panel has been contaminated and needs to be replaced. You have plenty to stand on for the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 From a practical standpoint the contacts were cleaned when the breakers where installed, that's really not enough paint to impede an electrical connection at that tight fitting contact. From a home inspection perspective the panel has been contaminated and needs to be replaced. You have plenty to stand on for the call. Looking at that middle picture, there's plenty enough paint on the contact areas to cause trouble. All you need is a little resistance to start generating heat then the process begins with everything eventually goes south, ending up in your lap. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm with Marc on this one. I draw the line when paint gets on the bus bars. I'd much prefer to put this in an electrician's lap for a final decision. All you need is for someone to come along and follow panel specs to the letter and you're going down for the count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hi MIke, The right call for you - the one that keeps you out of hot water and is absolutely correct - is to call for replacement. The code talks abouit "foreign contaminants" or something like that not being allowed in the panel. Look at it from a practical standpoint - even if he could to it without damaging components in the panel, how many hours is it going to take an electrician to disassemble all of that, clean it and put it back together? By the time an electrician does all of that, his fee exceeds what it would cost to install a new panel. That one isn't bad. I've seen 'em so bad that I couldn't tell what color any of the wiring was. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 From a practical standpoint the contacts were cleaned when the breakers where installed, that's really not enough paint to impede an electrical connection at that tight fitting contact. From a home inspection perspective the panel has been contaminated and needs to be replaced. You have plenty to stand on for the call. Looking at that middle picture, there's plenty enough paint on the contact areas to cause trouble. All you need is a little resistance to start generating heat then the process begins with everything eventually goes south, ending up in your lap. Marc It's broken and should be fixed. If I was buying the house I'd expect someone else to be picking up the tab for it. As an inspector I'd call it out with half that paint on it. If no one decided to follow my advice for this particular panel, I don't think I'd loose any sleep over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles46 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 As is always the case, what the client does with our reports and our recommendations is up to them. When it comes to electrical issues, I don't play games and I don't take chances. I tell my clients up front I am sensitive to electrical issues. So I would tell them it does not meet current code, that it is considered a safety issue and that it needs to be replaced by a licensed electrician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 As is always the case, what the client does with our reports and our recommendations is up to them. When it comes to electrical issues, I don't play games and I don't take chances. I tell my clients up front I am sensitive to electrical issues. So I would tell them it does not meet current code, that it is considered a safety issue and that it needs to be replaced by a licensed electrician. So, you're a code inspector too? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 No, He doesn't have to be. If he can read the code he can see that it says foreign contaminants aren't allowed in the panel. He can cite that and recommend replacement by an electrician. If the seller balks and wants to get it cleaned, it's up to the customer whether or not to accept that. As I said above, cost to clean it will probably be more than replacing it with a new one and the cleaned panel probably wouldn't be as good as a new one once someone spent hours with an abrasive pad trying to clean it. If the inspector calls for replacement, the inspector will have done his job as best he can. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 No, He doesn't have to be. If he can read the code he can see that it says foreign contaminants aren't allowed in the panel. He can cite that and recommend replacement by an electrician. If the seller balks and wants to get it cleaned, it's up to the customer whether or not to accept that. As I said above, cost to clean it will probably be more than replacing it with a new one and the cleaned panel probably wouldn't be as good as a new one once someone spent hours with an abrasive pad trying to clean it. If the inspector calls for replacement, the inspector will have done his job as best he can. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Sure. I cite code too but I don't tell my clients something isn't code compliant because I'm not a registered code inspector. The pest control guys and code inspectors alike both have turf they defend with laws that the legislature granted them. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 The pest control guys and code inspectors alike both have turf they defend with laws that the legislature granted them. Marc So, you're a lawyer too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Booth Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 The pest control guys and code inspectors alike both have turf they defend with laws that the legislature granted them. Marc So, you're a lawyer too? .......perfect[:-tong2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 The pest control guys and code inspectors alike both have turf they defend with laws that the legislature granted them. Marc So, you're a lawyer too? A reader. Reading the code doesn't make you a code inspector. Nor does reading the Statutes make you a lawyer. I draw the line at dispensing opinions to someone who is paying me to talk. Don't confuse me with Les. No disrespect to anyone here but we all enjoy freely giving out our own opinion. And there's no exchange of money here. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Sure. I cite code too but I don't tell my clients something isn't code compliant because I'm not a registered code inspector. Simple enough; go get yourself 'certified' then get licensed by your state to be a 'code inspector'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Sure. I cite code too but I don't tell my clients something isn't code compliant because I'm not a registered code inspector. Simple enough; go get yourself 'certified' then get licensed by your state to be a 'code inspector'. Why would I? The cost isn't worth it. I'm right where I want to be. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 What a hoot. I cite code too, but only by reference. The codes say, "blup". Marc is right in being careful not to couch it as, "I say...". In this case you shouldn't have to cite a code reason other than "altered equipment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBolar Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yeah I agree both pest control and code inspectors alike and both have to defend with laws that the legislature that are being granted to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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