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Solderless copper pipe fittings


Neal Lewis
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Never mind,

I found the answer on a wholesaler's site.

Q. How long will the EPDM seal last?

A When properly installed, the EPDM seal and connection will last as long as the copper pipe with which it is joined (50+ years). This is confirmed in the NSF 61 tests.

Q. How was the life testing conducted for the seals and fittings?

A. The life testing is a hot and cold thermal cycle test described in the NSF International test report.

I see that these are good up to 250°F so they can even handle water that's above boiling temperature. I grabbed a sampling of the wholesaler's 1/2-inch fittings prices and have posted them below.
1/2" ProPress Fittingsid="size4">

Common Fittings

Catalog # Description Price

78047 ProPress Copper Coupling w/Stop, C x C, 1/2in. $1.32

77317 ProPress Copper Elbow 90°, C x C, 1/2in. $1.47

77607 ProPress Copper Elbow 45°, C x C, 1/2in. $1.71

77377 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1/2in. $2.24

77712 ProPress Copper Cap, C, 1/2in. $2.83

77347 ProPress Copper Elbow 90°, FTG x C, 1/2in. $1.47

77637 ProPress Copper Elbow 45°, FTG x C, 1/2in. $1.32

78172 ProPress Copper Coupling No Stop, C x C, 1/2in. $3.17

Adapters

Catalog # Description Price

77887 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $2.05

78002 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $6.3

77812 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $2.44

77957 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x M NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $5.9

77892 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $1.95

78007 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $6.15

77817 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $1.61

77962 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x M NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $5.51

77897 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $4

78012 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $6.74

77822 ProPress Bronze Adapter, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $3.17

77967 ProPress Bronze Adapter, FTG x M NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $8.98

Tees

Catalog # Description Price

77377 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1/2in. $2.24

15473 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/2in. x 1/2in. x 1-1/2in. $28.98

15448 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/2in. x 1-1/2in. x 1/2in. $24.93

15493 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1/2in. x 1/2in. x 1in. $10.63

77382 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1/2in. x 1/2in. x 3/4in. $7.51

22253 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/4in. x 1/2in. x 1-1/2in. $23.76

94757 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/4in. x 1-1/4in. x 1/2in. $10.1

22238 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/4in. x 1in. x 1/2in. $14.78

22243 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/4in. x 3/4in. x 1/2in. $18.54

94767 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1in. x 1/2in. x 1in. $11.46

22263 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1in. x 1/2in. x 3/4in. $18.2

77432 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1in. x 1in. x 1/2in. $8.15

77417 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 1in. x 3/4in. x 1/2in. $12.1

15533 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 2in. x 1/2in. x 2in. $45.81

15538 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 2in. x 2in. x 1/2in. $40.05

77392 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 3/4in. x 1/2in. x 1/2in. $6.1

77397 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 3/4in. x 1/2in. x 3/4in. $6.34

77402 ProPress Copper Tee, C x C x C, 3/4in. x 3/4in. x 1/2in. $3.32

23403 ProPress Copper Venturi Tee, C x C x C, 1-1/4in. x 1-1/4in. x 1/2in. $16.83

23393 ProPress Copper Venturi Tee, C x C x C, 1in. x 1in. x 1/2in. $11.57

23388 ProPress Copper Venturi Tee, C x C x C, 3/4in. x 3/4in. x 1/2in. $9.71

77582 ProPress Bronze Tee, C x C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. x 1/2in. $7.07

77597 ProPress Bronze Tee, C x C x F NPT, 1-1/4in. x 1-1/4in. x 1/2in. $17.27

14573 ProPress Bronze Vent Tee, C x F NPT, x C 1/2in. x 1/8in. x 1/2in. $9.22

Threaded Elbows

Catalog # Description Price

22193 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $7.12

22223 ProPress Bronze Elbow Drop 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/8in. $14.59

77532 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $4.54

77577 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, FTG x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $4.83

77492 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $7.17

77697 ProPress Bronze Elbow Drop 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $6.74

77572 ProPress Bronze Elbow Drop 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. High Ear $12.1

77537 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $10.44

77497 ProPress Bronze Elbow 90°, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 3/4in. $9.81

Unions

Catalog # Description Price

15558 ProPress Bronze Di-Elec. Union,. C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $20.39

77667 ProPress Bronze Union, C x C, 1/2in. $10.34

77752 ProPress Bronze Union, C x F NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $8.3

77782 ProPress Bronze Union, C x M NPT, 1/2in. x 1/2in. $9.02

Reducers

Catalog # Description Price

78147 ProPress Copper Reducer, C x C, 3/4in. x 1/2in. $6

15573 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C, 1-1/2in. x 1/2in. $12.29

22333 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C, 1-1/4in. x 1/2in. $4.54

78082 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C, 1in. x 1/2in. $3.76

15578 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C, 2in. x 1/2in. $15.66

78077 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C, 3/4in. x 1/2in. $1.47

15603 ProPress Copper Reducer, FTG x C. 1in. x 1/2in. $10.49

Valves

Catalog # Description Price

22353 ProPress Bronze Check Valve, 1/2in. $16.73

22053 ProPress Bronze Ball Valve Metal Handle, C x C, 1/2in. $13.69

19678 ProPress Bronze Ball Valve, Plastic Handl, 1/2in. $13.19

23418 ProPress Red Cap Replacement Handle, 1/2in. & 3/4in. $1.61

23413 ProPress Blue Cap Replacement Handle, 1/2in. & 3/4in. $1.61

Miscellaneous

Catalog # Description Price

78202 ProPress Bronze Pressure Test Plug, 1/2in. $16.49

77742 ProPress Copper Cross-Over, C x C, 1/2in. $9.22

78137 ProPress Copper Cross-Over, FTG x C, 1/2in. $3.51

19786 ProPress Copper, 1/2in. Elbow stub out with strap, 4in. x 8in. length $4.04

19771 ProPress Copper, 1/2in. Straight Stub out with strap, 10in. length $3.99

78242 ProPress EPDM Seal (Shinny Black), 1/2in. $0.78

17768 ProPress FKM Sealing Element (Dull Black), 1/2in. $0.83

So, you ex pipe sweaters should be able to tell us if these prices are out of the ballpark. These are only half inch, the fittings go all the way up to 4" i.d.. The tool costs $1772 and the 1/2", 3/4", and 1" jaws each costs $126 from this supplier.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

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I don't get it. Well, I take that back; I do get it. New (lower skill set tradespeople) workforce requires new accompanying engineered product.

For anyone w/a $50 collection of tools, one can have a permanent joint. Sweating small (1" or less) pipe fittings takes so little time. But, it's still time. The joint will probably last longer than the boiler, so you can refit when you change out the boiler.

I hate progress when it takes something I'm really good @ and makes it, and correspondingly, me, an anachronism. I think progress should only be allowed on stuff I'm no good at.

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Originally posted by kurt

I hate progress when it takes something I'm really good @ and makes it, and correspondingly, me, an anachronism. I think progress should only be allowed on stuff I'm no good at.

Kurt--

There's a simple answer to this problem! The idea is to start off -- and remain -- blissfully incompetent. That way, you never become an anachronism and, as a side benefit, progress makes you happy.

Admittedly, it's too late for me or you to try it. Or anyone else on this board. But based on some of the stuff I see every day, it's obvious that lots of others have embraced the concept![:-dunce]

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Originally posted by hausdok

Never mind,

I found the answer on a wholesaler's site.

Q. How long will the EPDM seal last?

A When properly installed, the EPDM seal and connection will last as long as the copper pipe with which it is joined (50+ years). This is confirmed in the NSF 61 tests.

Q. How was the life testing conducted for the seals and fittings?

A. The life testing is a hot and cold thermal cycle test described in the NSF International test report.

I simply don't believe that you can do accellerated testing on something like an EPDM seal and have that testing be meaningful in the real world. There's no way that anyone can say with certainty that these seals will last 50+ years.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

(Not throwing out my soldering torch yet.)

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Originally posted by kurt

I don't get it. Well, I take that back; I do get it. New (lower skill set tradespeople) workforce requires new accompanying engineered product.

Quote from a contractor on a long thread about potential problems with ProPress at HeatingHelp:

We used all pro press fittings during the complete refurbish/ renovation of a 100 + year old city owned theatre several years ago. We were told if by soldering we started a fire in the building we literally could not carry enough insurance to replace the historic community landmark. The Pro Press was cheap insurance.

Fittings with the solder built in are common in the UK, I'm told. A friend was importing them to sell and couldn't find any interest.

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I simply don't believe that you can do accellerated testing on something like an EPDM seal and have that testing be meaningful in the real world. There's no way that anyone can say with certainty that these seals will last 50+ years.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

(Not throwing out my soldering torch yet.)

I've seen these fitting used. They are not only faster, but they're a lot faster.

Even when I plumb with all nice new shiny material and I don't clean fittings, it still takes time to flux, heat and solder. I don't care how good you are, you're not installing even a 1/2 tee in 30 seconds using conventional methods.

The epdm or neoprene is mechanically encapsulated and compressed. The crimp lock itself is probably close to being water tight even without a gasket...like a compression union where all materials are uniformly deformed. The compression creates a double sided taper and tapers are very effective at locking and sealing.

I'd be willing to wager that cold water lines will last as long as copper. Without thermal cycling and the resulting abrasive action on the gasket there is no reasonable explanation why a joint would fail.

I'd also be willing to wager that the hot lines may experience problems as soon as 30 or 40 years. The expansion cycles will, over time loosen the crimps.

I'll pass on the 1800 dollar investment for now, but I really do want the tee making tool that pulls a nipple out of copper tube.

If you have a 3/4 tube and want to install a 1/2 branch this tool extrudes and shapes the tee w/o additional fittings.

Connections using the tool must be brazed as one can't get enough area for dependable solder joints.

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"Fittings with the solder built in are common in the UK, I'm told. A friend was importing them to sell and couldn't find any interest."

Neal, I see these fairly commonly (a different animal from the above discussion) and the tool is cheap, about $50.

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I haven't run into the ProPress yet or I may have confused it with the pre-soldered.

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Well that takes all the fun out of it.

If you are not allowed to play with fire how are you supposed to leave scorch marks?

On the serious side ,this means you have that darn cord to drag around which may feel inconvenient.Plus I bet the pre-solder often has defects in coating just enough to make plumbers jittery about using it.One time would be to many for those secure in their own handi work.

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