Tim H Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 What is the proper terminology for the area circled in the photo? I am also wondering if anyone else Image Insert: 64.18 KB is finding that the roofers are not installing felt under the shingles in these areas? I am finding that no underlayment is installed in this area on the majority of the homes that I inspect. Thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I believe it is part of a dutch gable. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Manor Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I call it a continuous return. Other times I call it the little roof like thing above the windows. -Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim H Posted October 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Originally posted by Brad Manor I call it a continuous return. Other times I call it the little roof like thing above the windows. -Brad That's pretty much how I have been describing it as well. I'm just trying to be as precise as I can. Any doubt that felt should be installed? No one has argued with me yet for calling it out, but I'm sure it's coming. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carle3 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 As framers we use to refer to this style of roof as an eyebrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I find no felt on half of the I see and most of them have no flashing where the soffit runs down on them at the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I also call this area 'the small front roof above the xxxxxx room windows'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 We call it a shed roof above windows at front of house. 99% have no underlayment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Originally posted by Tim H What is the proper terminology for the area circled in the photo? It's called a pent roof. In that position, the pent roof creates an "enclosed gable". http://www.oldhouseweb.com/blog/pent-roofs-an-endangered-species/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bernhardt Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Bill, Would you call it that in your report? My clients like myself would have no idea what a "pent roof" is. Chris, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt Bill, Would you call it that in your report? My clients like myself would have no idea what a "pent roof" is. Chris, Oregon Yes, I would. If there was an issue with a pent roof, before receiving the report, my clients would know exactly what it is from our discussion on-site. There would also be a picture with an arrow pointing to it in the report. Why make something up, if there's a word for it? If home owners don't know what the name of a house part is, why not tell them? I'd rather educate them then "dumb down" a report. If folks want to gather more information or discuss an issue with other professionals, I think the correct names for house parts would serve them better. For example, let's say they go to do some research, like Googling "little slopey-roof thingie". I'd think they'd find less than if they searched with the correct term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim H Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Originally posted by inspecthistoric Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt Bill, Would you call it that in your report? My clients like myself would have no idea what a "pent roof" is. Chris, Oregon Yes, I would. If there was an issue with a pent roof, before receiving the report, my clients would know exactly what it is from our discussion on-site. There would also be a picture with an arrow pointing to it in the report. Why make something up, if there's a word for it? If home owners don't know what the name of a house part is, why not tell them? I'd rather educate them then "dumb down" a report. If folks want to gather more information or discuss an issue with other professionals, I think the correct names for house parts would serve them better. For example, let's say they go to do some research, like Googling "little slopey-roof thingie". I'd think they'd find less than if they searched with the correct term. Thanks Bill - I had a feeling that you would know. I agree with you on using the proper terminology when known. I should have asked a long time ago. Now that I know what it is, looking in the glossary of 'American Houses-A field Guide To The Architecture Of The Home' gives me a good definition, and I now know what a pent eave and a penthouse are as well. Good stuff to know. Thanks again, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim H Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Originally posted by Les We call it a shed roof above windows at front of house. 99% have no underlayment. Thanks Les, Any idea or opinion on why roofers do not install underlayment on pent roofs (I couldn't resist using my new word)? Is there some convoluted roofer logic involved, or just laziness? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 They probably were too lazy to measure and trim the felt away from this location, plus there is no standing room. Typically , the roofer's will just roll the felt from one side to the other-- maybe a single guy couldn't do this at this location........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 I had no idea what the right name is. Pent roof. Definitely use the correct term, and have a picture with an arrow. It's smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcr Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I would call that a gable cornice roof. Even though there is no cornice. Cut short at the corners, like the gable to the left in the post picture, that would be cornice return roofs.(if they were larger and had roofing material) In my mind, a pent roof is the same as a shed or lean-to roof, and a separate style of roof. Pent, shed or lean-to roof The above link was also a good example of a stand alone pent roof. But hey, with a picture and arrow, you can call it what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickSab Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Is that pent roof in the garage? I have heard arguments that no felt is needed if the area will not be heated. Anyone else? It's short sighted because so many people use thair garage as another room or workshop. But as I understand it: if the space is not heated there is no need for felt because there would not be the same condensation or moisture issue as there would be in a heated space. Many outdoor sheds are roofed without felt paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSwamp Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be a pediment with a continuous cornice return? WJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Manor Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Walter, I've always called it a continuous return. That doesn't necessarily make it correct, however. -B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 "I have heard arguments that no felt is needed if the area will not be heated." Most shingle manufacturers only require felt for roof pitches 3/12 or lower. Since it will not void the shingle warranty there is no problem unless your specific area requires something different. If it were my roof it would have felt on it. There is probably enough scrap from the main roof to cover the pent, kinda dumb not to put there. Tom Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Originally posted by Tom Raymond[br Most shingle manufacturers only require felt for roof pitches 3/12 or lower. Tom I don't believe that is true. Can you name one. A reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Quote: Originally posted by Tom Raymond [br Most shingle manufacturers only require felt for roof pitches 3/12 or lower. Tom I don't believe that is true. Can you name one. A reference? It's also an IRC building code requirement no matter the slope of the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Originally posted by Mike Lamb Originally posted by Tom Raymond[br Most shingle manufacturers only require felt for roof pitches 3/12 or lower. Tom I don't believe that is true. Can you name one. A reference? Certainteed and Elk come to mind. There was thread about this just a week or two ago, check their websites for installation requirements. I linked a pdf for Certainteed then. I would be careful to check the local code that applies to that building though, we all know that there are exclusions, variations, and amendments to the code that vary be location. Code requirement or not, it is a pretty stupid detail to omit. Tom Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgclancy Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'll toss in my two bits here which most won't like. On a roof with a 4/12 pitch or higher the felt underlayment is irrelevant. Roof felt underlayment should NOT be considered a water barrier. It's only real purpose is to make the installation and removal of roofing shingles easier. It should NOT be relied upon as a water barrier. Either from above or below. The shingles above are designed to keep moisture out. If they fail the felt is not to be relied upon to keep moisture out-period. If there is a moisture problem from below then there is a venting imbalance which needs to be addressed. Local codes may state it is necessary. Using manufacturer specifications would state otherwise but if an inspector demands it then it's best to just go along. You could fight the machine but .... Jim C. P.S.- Personally, I not only install an underlayment but in many cases put the Grace Shield on the whole roof not just the first few feet. It costs more but it is fantastic and I know in 20-30 years the roof will be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'll toss in my two bits here which most won't like. On a roof with a 4/12 pitch or higher the felt underlayment is irrelevant. If it is irrelevant on over a 4/12 slope, why would it be relevant on less than a 4/12 slope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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