kurt

Matzen herded some cats. Les was in on it too, although I heard Rich did the basic draft.

The first SOP that all the other SOP's copy or follow (ASHI, poi) was not written as a guideline about how we should inspect stuff. Its a document crafted in the big tent style by a professional organization trying to include everyone.....franchisees, individuals, small to big shops...everyone. As such, it's a both surprisingly good and a total mess, like sausage should be. When I created my software, I used it and my State SOP as a guidline; it was useful. The guy that put together the original, Rich Matzen, is a pretty good guy. He knew what he was trying to accomplish. Rich intended it to be just what it is, and what it is, is a way to begin thinking about this thing we do. That's all. Why anyone places much credence in it for anything other than the most basic guideline for beginners is a mystery for me.

I can quibble about a lot of specifics, but it's not hard to read or understand. It's the usual committee promulgated document. I don't know why code documents don't follow the Code Check lead and phrase things like humans think and speak. They all have that same official baritone phrasing and voice. Probably for the same reason HI's write passive voice blather. People think it sounds official and important.

Yes, that one is burned into my psyche for awhile......

They can work in some situations. I tried one on my own crappy bungalow fireplace >20 years ago.....didn't work. I think they do well for wind driven draft issues, but not if the fundamental components are screwed up. The only thing that got my fireplace (w/the 8" liner) to draft was when I ditched the firebox, put in an old Jotul stove, and then preheated the chimney with my plumbers blowtorch. It'd take about 15 minutes of blasting to get it warmed up enough to where it would draft, sort of. Everything would be (sort of) OK for several days until I had to kill the fire and clean out the stove. Then, it was the same drill again. Did that for one winter, closed up the hole, now it's bookshelves where the fireplace used to be.

Not exactly.

Sounds exquisite. The under floor jobs are really nice. Are the fireplaces old coal burners, or wood?

It's not about gas conversion. It's about draft problems. People install them mistakenly thinking they can get their crappy bungalow fireplace to draft.

What's the pipe and radiator set up? Anything special? Tall narrow radiators in corners or lower wider jobs around perimeter? Mix? I'll bet there's tons of iron in there.

What's the heating plant?

I ask because I've never seen much of anything crack inside conduit, and conduit is pretty much all we have here. I didn't know stuff in conduit cracks. I always thought it was UV exposure.

Pretty nice. Do you get to keep the stone statue thing in the back yard? Are those column lights flanking the entry original? Bronze? Click to Enlarge 461.62?KB

Way cool purchase. I gotta see this one. Road trip coming up.

Mmmmmm......coon for dinner.......

With (Lake Bluff folks name withheld in the hope they don't sue me) on the job recommending relines for just about everything, it's a good idea to call for it on any fireplace regardless of new, old, converted, or whatever.

Are you saying SEC always cracks irrespective of UV, or no UV exposure?

Magic, Bill. Magic. I'm a natural man....I see it, I feel it. Mike asked, reasonably and thoughtfully, what folks made of this situation. So I said what I thought. For those unable to read words for what they are without projecting meaning upon them, I said it looks small. No "determination" was made one way or the other. For those that work a particular locale for a couple decades and have seen a few thousand Chicago 8" tile liner chimneys pressed into service for fireplace use with a complete lack of draft, it's a reasonable guess. Thousands upon thousands of Chicago houses had/have these nearly fake fireplaces. Lacking adequate fireboxes, smoke shelves, properly sized liners, or any other semblance of an actual fireplace accoutrement properly applied in the quest to bring Prometheus' gift into one's living room......they all choke and back smoke into the house. The actual reasons for the lack of draft can be explained with a little high school physics, but because I paid little to no attention in high school physics, instead following my muse in tracing the path of the great Gaugin, I can't explain it in high school physics terms without brushing up on my homework. So I guessed and said it looked small. Because there's tens of thousands of them throughout Chicago. And they're all too small.

Flue looks too small, with a last ditch effort to make it draft with the flaky flue hood.

Add time to the list, as in months into years of doing all the things folks are recommending and waiting for them to take hold. Don't quit the day job.

Sounds like it could be fixed with a simple piece of sheet metal, or am I not seeing it right? "Close the gap in the duct with a piece of sheet metal.....(?)".

Which is which?

Same, should have it.

Yeah. What are these consumer protection laws? I recall tort reform being one of those Federal issues argued about during elections. Loser pays always gets voted down. Do I have this wrong?

Won't ever happen. Legislative branch is very heavily populated with attorneys. No one's going to cut their gravy train. I've got a couple law professor friends; they teach at Northwestern. They've got all kinds of self serving reasons why *loser pays* is a bad idea. I regularly disabuse them of this notion. Self serving behavior is built into the system.

Epoxy is the miracle answer. Abaton is great. WEST is good too. Some folks have some other specialty mfg's. they like better, but it's all epoxy AFAIC. Mix it up, thin it down to water viscosity, soak the sash. I've save a lot of windows that way. Around here we get closer to 100 years on those sash because the old growth material is so highly decay resistant. All the sash on my 90+ year old house and the 100+ windows on the 90+ year old apartment building are fine. Some of the sills decayed from pooling water due to condensation, but that's partly due to them being set directly on the limestone window sills and water wicking from the limestone into the sill. I fix the sills with an epoxy bath. Works great.