castleinspector Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I inspected this home last week and have a question about the fire damage. Owner says the fire was in the 1930's however repairs look recent. New roof was done in 2004 looks as though the repairs were made in 2004. Should rafters this chared still be in place? I'm not a roofing specialist but I would believe they have lost structural integrity. Click to Enlarge 53 KB Click to Enlarge 47.35 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I spent 17 yeas of my life in a (then) 100-year old home in upstate New York where 100% of the roof framing looked like that. You would not believe some of the winter snow loads that house has endured and still endures to this day. That house would be about 152 years old now. I dunno, charring looks awful but I think it has to be pretty deep to seriously compromise the timbers. I'm no expert though; one of these guys has probably done restoration work and will know the answer to that. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I would have performed the highly-sophisticated, pull out a screwdriver and thump-the-rafters-with-both-ends test. It's easy enough to determine if the wood is still sturdy or not. Too, if there was no smoky odor in the attic, the damage isn't recent, and the rafters have performed swell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale McNutt Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 It doesn't really matter if it's fire damage or water damage. If someone doesn't make it "like it never even happened", the next buyer down the line is going to ask, "what happened? Since most folks don't want to get that meticulous in the attic, documentation better be at the ready. Snohomish County says you need a building permit if the repair damage is in excess of $2000. I think it's important to remind the client to do the paper chase to see if there was some kind of documentation to provide closure on the condition. (either the building official or the contractor verifying whats left is acceptable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 It doesn't really matter if it's fire damage or water damage. If someone doesn't make it "like it never even happened", the next buyer down the line is going to ask, "what happened? Since most folks don't want to get that meticulous in the attic, documentation better be at the ready. Snohomish County says you need a building permit if the repair damage is in excess of $2000. I think it's important to remind the client to do the paper chase to see if there was some kind of documentation to provide closure on the condition. (either the building official or the contractor verifying whats left is acceptable) I don't disagree, really, but who gets to take a look and make the call on what repairs are going to cost? Clearly, Jethro and his halfwit son, Buford, are going to be a lot less expensive than someone who's competent. Also, code officials in most areas aren't trained to assess fire damage, and my clients pay ME to tell them whether a building is sound, not a contractor who may or may not know what he's looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Sistering structural members on that scale is not something I would condone. In a class for first time home buyers I have a picture similiar to castleinspector's in which I explain to the class how the charred wood will ignite more easily. 'Charcoaled wood...good for a bar-b-que...not good for a house.' [] Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I recently inspected a house where the the rafters were damaged by soda blasting- nothing too major, some sap wood missing, some damaged areas where the blaster lingered too long while he was lighting a joint. Anyway, the buyer kept pressing me to take a stand on whether it was OK or not and even though I knew in my heart that it was fine, I didn't want to own his roof so I suggested he hire a structural engineer to runs some numbers. Well, it turns out that the roof was built to support exactly a 40 psf snow load so even the minimal amount of stock removal that had occurred rendered the roof framing structurally inadequate. My point is, in cases like this have someone else own the roof system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale McNutt Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 By any measure, the damage in the two photos is EASILY greater than 2 grand. If there was no permit, that eliminates much of the documentation of the original damage. If there was a permit, there would need to be a responsible party (owner builder) or licensed contractor. It is the licensed contractor's responsibility (by law) to construct properly. (not the jurisdiction's job to tell him how to do it) I think this is important to note because it is very possible that the client could decide to sell in a few years. If the next buyer's inspection does not see things the way you see it, it may come back to bite. I don't think it is a good idea for for a home inspector to vouch for the performance of roof framing that features a charred member(s) sandwiched between newer rafters. (not the way I would do it) Also, there is no encapsulation paint anywhere. I don't know if it is a territorial thing, but in So. Calif., almost all of the fire damage jobs I have seen have been painted to help contain the carbon and carbon smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I recently inspected a house where the the rafters were damaged by soda blasting- nothing too major, some sap wood missing, some damaged areas where the blaster lingered too long while he was lighting a joint. Anyway, the buyer kept pressing me to take a stand on whether it was OK or not and even though I knew in my heart that it was fine, I didn't want to own his roof so I suggested he hire a structural engineer to runs some numbers. Well, it turns out that the roof was built to support exactly a 40 psf snow load so even the minimal amount of stock removal that had occurred rendered the roof framing structurally inadequate. My point is, in cases like this have someone else own the roof system. I have learned a lesson. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primitivelamps Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Just based on what I see, I would be more concerned about the reduced flash point of the charred wood vs the strength. Wood can maintains its strength even while burning up to 2000F. People are always surprised when you tell them a steel beam in a garage will fail faster than a wooden beam in a fire. Maybe its over kill but I recommend having any charred wood preped and painted with a intumescent paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emil Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 In a remodel is charred wood except able in remodel home and ply wood on roof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 I find it interesting that this old discussion should come up again given that the "hottest" new siding these days is burnt wood. http://charredwood.com/history-of-shou-sugi-ban-charred-wood-treatment/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 You seem to be asking - Is charred wood acceptable? and the answer is - it depends on the extent of the damage. Have a builder or a home inspector take a look and get an opinion. For something in writing, you may need a structural engineer's report. You can also consult the local authority where you apply for the permit. .Sometimes if you ask the authority what he thinks you should do, you get the answer you need to get a final approval. That approval adds value when you go to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 10:38 AM, Jim Katen said: I find it interesting that this old discussion should come up again given that the "hottest" new siding these days is burnt wood. http://charredwood.com/history-of-shou-sugi-ban-charred-wood-treatment/ When my wife asked for a bottle rack on the wall for new wine club shipments, she got the charred southern yellow pine 1/4 inch paneling courtesy yours truly. Hanging ten on the curl of the future's wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 10 hours ago, Jim Baird said: Hanging ten on the curl of the future's wave. . . . while wielding metaphors like a pro. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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