Marc Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Is there any issue raised by having a pilot installed in a fireplace? Someone could close the damper and the flue gases from the pilot would end up in the house. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't have anything to cite, but ventless logs are legal in Kentucky, and the pilots are lighted pretty much 24/7. Non-electronic-ignition stoves also have continuously-lighted pilot lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Those usually come with a little C-clamp that's installed on the damper to prevent it from being closed. Sometimes I'll find a hole drilled in the damper with a long self-tapping screw installed that does the same thing. Anytime you have one of those without a means to clamp the flue open, you need to inform the client that something needs to be installed on the damper to prevent it from being closed all the way. If the client complains that will cause him/her to lose heat up the chimney, tell him he has lots of choices. 1. Remove the faux long set and pilot and close the damper. 2. Turn off the pilot and the gas, close the damper and never turn the gas on and use the faux log set until the damper has been opened 3. Install a clamp on the damper so that the damper can't be closed with the pilot left on. 4. Remove the clamp, leave the pilot on, close the damper and die from C.O. poisoning. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Those usually come with a little C-clamp that's installed on the damper to prevent it from being closed. Sometimes I'll find a hole drilled in the damper with a long self-tapping screw installed that does the same thing. Anytime you have one of those without a means to clamp the flue open, you need to inform the client that something needs to be installed on the damper to prevent it from being closed all the way. If the client complains that will cause him/her to lose heat up the chimney, tell him he has lots of choices. 1. Remove the faux long set and pilot and close the damper. 2. Turn off the pilot and the gas, close the damper and never turn the gas on and use the faux log set until the damper has been opened 3. Install a clamp on the damper so that the damper can't be closed with the pilot left on. 4. Remove the clamp, leave the pilot on, close the damper and die from C.O. poisoning. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Incorrect. The clamp is installed for gas-log sets that MUST be vented. The clamp is intended to protect the occupants when the gas logs are LIGHTED. Ventless gas logs are installed in flueless fireplaces. No clamp can be installed because there IS no damper. The pilots remain lighted all day, every day, during the winter. People do not expire because of this. Ventless logs are also installed in fireplaces that contain flues. Installers NEVER install the clamp on the damper when ventless logs are placed in the firebox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Well, He didn't say he has a pilot in an unvented gas appliance in a fireplace. He says he has a pilot installed in a fireplace and describes a scenario where someone closes a damper (You don't have that with a ventless appliance) and gases end up in the house. We see decorative gas fireplaces and unlisted gas faux log sets installed in masonry chimneys all the time around here. In fact, it's rare when I don't see a fireplace. I've seen one unvented gas stove (fireplace they called it) in ten years. I told the folks buying the house with that unvented applliance not to use it unless they left a window cracked open. I don't much care that the gas from a faux log set pilot that's burning 24/7 in a vented fireplace doesn't produce much CO and hasn't got much likelihood of poisoning someone; I'm going to continue to tell them just what I wrote above. That way, if some cheap SOB shuts that damper tight and continues to allow that pilot to burn and does poison him/herself, I'm not going to end up in anyone's crosshairs, and there won't be homeowners walking around here talking about how so-and-so died last night from CO poisoning and he would have lived if O'Handley had only warned him never to leave that pilot on when the fireplace damper was closed. This is probably the one scenario where I don't object to inspectorlore. In this case, inspectorlore will ensure Dad and Mom are scared just sh*****s enough to make sure the thing is off when everyone goes to bed. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Every once and a while, I just go with something that someone I trust said. Loden said (basically, with fewer words), what Mike said. Pilot in a gas log set, damper gets the clamp to hold the damper open. "Ventless" logs, no clamp because there's no damper. I tell folks to do the C clamp on gas logs, and I tell them to throw the ventless thing in the trash. Actually, I just inform them that the correct term for ventless logs is "Room Vented, Lung Filtered". .......quote from Chimney Bob Priesing...... Go Bulls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's vented. I paused before posting this OP. I wasn't sure that someone wouldn't call me an idiot for being concerned about CO from a pilot. I've written it up. Thanks Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's vented. I paused before posting this OP. I wasn't sure that someone wouldn't call me an idiot for being concerned about CO from a pilot. I've written it up. Thanks Marc What was the pilot for? I wouldn't stress over the carbon monoxide from a pilot light alone. But I'd be concerned about the device that the pilot was attached to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseason Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 For decades kitchen stoves had standing pilots installed, how many people died from that? And as mentioned the flue should be fixed open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 What was the pilot for? I wouldn't stress over the carbon monoxide from a pilot light alone. But I'd be concerned about the device that the pilot was attached to. It supplied ignition for a main burner. House built in 07'. I don't have a photo. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrmnk Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I always write up the need for the clamp on the damper for vented gas logs, with no relation to whether it has a standing pilot or not. Most in my area don't have standing pilots and are manually lit or have an ignitor for lighting. I list it as a concern for the valves leaking natural gas by when turned off (have found that happening at least a dozen times on gas leak calls at the fire department I work at, as well as finding leaking valves on inspections). It keeps the small air flow going to reduce the risk of leaking natural gas into the home. The damper should be fully opened when burning vented gas logs, correct? The small air flow from the clamp with the damper mostly closed doesn't fully allow the CO to vent when they are operating (also witnessed numerous times on CO alarm responses I've been on when someone doesn't fully open the damper). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I have never seen a ventless gas log I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 They're in nearly every condo in Chicago. It's like a wave washed over every developer in the City, and they all decided they had to take up 30sf of LR space for a stamped metal piece of crap that looks like it should be in someone's finished basement circa 1962. The one's I really hate are the glass front jobs where you can't even toast a marshmallow or light a......ahem.......light anything off them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearthman Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Locate the rating plate with the ANSI listing number. If there is no rating plate, recommend the logset be removed as an unlisted logset. If the ANSI number is Z21.11.2, it is ventfree and should be installed in accordance with the mfrs. listed instructions but only if it also meets the building code requirements. If it is listed to ANSI Z21.60, it is a vented gas logset that has a required minimum PERMANENT net free opening as stated in the listed instructions. This is your typical vented gas lotset with a standing pilot. You may also have logs listed to ANSI Z21.88, which is also a vented logset but is match lit and does not have a standing pilot. Also note that there are a lot of what is called "dual listed" gas logs that can be ventfree or vented, per the listed instructions. Do Not leave the damper open with ventfree logs- air currents can cause flame distortion, which can lead to carbon monoxide production and sooting. HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Locate the rating plate with the ANSI listing number. If there is no rating plate, recommend the logset be removed as an unlisted logset. If the ANSI number is Z21.11.2, it is ventfree and should be installed in accordance with the mfrs. listed instructions but only if it also meets the building code requirements. If it is listed to ANSI Z21.60, it is a vented gas logset that has a required minimum PERMANENT net free opening as stated in the listed instructions. This is your typical vented gas lotset with a standing pilot. You may also have logs listed to ANSI Z21.88, which is also a vented logset but is match lit and does not have a standing pilot. Also note that there are a lot of what is called "dual listed" gas logs that can be ventfree or vented, per the listed instructions. Do Not leave the damper open with ventfree logs- air currents can cause flame distortion, which can lead to carbon monoxide production and sooting. HTH, 1...2...3... 5 new boilerplate. Thanks! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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