Denray Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I don't know what make breakers these are. Do you think they were made to handle to conductors? Click to Enlarge 64.41 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Beige handles look like Cutler Hammer. I don't think they are rated for two conductors, but I haven't researched it. Did you get any other identifying info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Those look like Cutler-Hammer CH breakers. The panel cover would have been tan if it had not been painted over. CH does hve some breaker listed for 2 conductors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 No ID info. Wait a minute. Still don't know if rated for two. That's my only shot and too small for me to read at the time. Click to Enlarge 51.32 KB Click to Enlarge 54.17 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Hack job. CH and SquareD that accept two conductors have a plate under the screw that the wires go UNDER. In your picture only the bottom two breakers show that, the four breakers above show the ends and the side of the wire. Looks to me like they weren't inserted properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I didn't enlarge the pic but it seems clear that the lower 3 breakers are of a different design that clearly should only have one wire. (and they do) The upper ones MAY be rated for two but the photo isn't clear enough for me to see the design clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Here's one on the left side. Click to Enlarge 81.22 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Hack job. CH and SquareD that accept two conductors have a plate under the screw that the wires go UNDER. In your picture only the bottom two breakers show that, the four breakers above show the ends and the side of the wire. Looks to me like they weren't inserted properly. Hack job? The wires can only be installed one way. If they don't go under the screw head, where else are they gonna go? The bottom breaker is likely a two pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 CH did not have the same retention clamp as Square D. I just looked on the truck and the newer CH breakers with the plastic mounting foot are labeled for 2 copper conductors or 1 aluminum. I did not see a label on the older metal foot style. The clamp is a slightly v-shaped lug with a flat pressure plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 The wires can only be installed one way. Famous last words. For everyone that says that, there are at least 10 creative people who will screw it up. If they don't go under the screw head, where else are they gonna go? The bottom breaker is likely a two pole. In the picture right above your post it's pretty obvious that there is not enough contact area on several of the breaker terminations. Others are done correctly (same breaker) and the top breaker has the other style with the hole to insert the wire. That's all you can see without being there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Well heck. There are a couple of awg12 wires on 30 amp breakers so I'll get an electrician in there somehow, maybe. Plus the bad deadfront panel missing twistouts. Thanks for all the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 The #12s on a 30 amp breaker could be correct if the load was an air conditioner or a motor load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Here's one on the left side. Click to Enlarge 81.22 KB The second and third breaker down are the style that accept 2 conductors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Here's one on the left side. Click to Enlarge 81.22 KB The second and third breaker down are the style that accept 2 conductors. I question what he did there - a black and a white on a double 30 amp breaker, OK. Then he added a black to one side of that circuit. That looks like the work of an ignoramus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Here's one on the left side. Click to Enlarge 81.22 KB The second and third breaker down are the style that accept 2 conductors. I question what he did there - a black and a white on a double 30 amp breaker, OK. Then he added a black to one side of that circuit. That looks like the work of an ignoramus. Right. Something foul going on there. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Port Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I can't read the embossed labels, but all the conductors on that side look like #12's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I don't know what make breakers these are. Do you think they were made to handle to conductors? If a breaker is made to accept two wires it should be marked with that information. If it's not marked, it shouldn't have two wires connected to it. Each of the double taps in your pictures is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 If a breaker is made to accept two wires it should be marked with that information. If it's not marked, it shouldn't have two wires connected to it. What if you know that it is complaint? Such as this case? Each of the double taps in your pictures is wrong. Sorry, I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 If a breaker is made to accept two wires it should be marked with that information. If it's not marked, it shouldn't have two wires connected to it. What if you know that it is complaint? Such as this case? It cannot be compliant unless it is marked. You can find this rule at 110.14(A). It's not new. Each of the double taps in your pictures is wrong. Sorry, I disagree. Please provide a reference for your claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 "Please provide a reference for your claim" I think Lord Dicwythe would disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 It cannot be compliant unless it is marked. You can find this rule at 110.14(A). It's not new. .................. Please provide a reference for your claim. When I go out to my truck I'll take a pic of a C-H CH breaker for you. My reference is that I know it from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 It cannot be compliant unless it is marked. You can find this rule at 110.14(A). It's not new. .................. Please provide a reference for your claim. When I go out to my truck I'll take a pic of a C-H CH breaker for you. My reference is that I know it from experience. Look at the catalogue. The CH115 breakers are the only Cutler Hammer breakers that can accept two wires. They have this information molded onto the side of the case. The double-tapped breakers in the original post are not CH115 breakers. Download Attachment: CHbreakers Catalogue Page.jpg 92.26 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 And please check out these threads where this has been hashed to death already - always with the same outcome: https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... C_ID=16927 https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... C_ID=11406 https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... IC_ID=7409 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 It cannot be compliant unless it is marked. You can find this rule at 110.14(A). It's not new. .................. Please provide a reference for your claim. When I go out to my truck I'll take a pic of a C-H CH breaker for you. My reference is that I know it from experience. Look at the catalogue. The CH115 breakers are the only Cutler Hammer breakers that can accept two wires. They have this information molded onto the side of the case. The double-tapped breakers in the original post are not CH115 breakers. Download Attachment: CHbreakers Catalogue Page.jpg 92.26?KB You are reading that catalog page wrong. Those wire specs are for ALL the breakers in that size range; 10-30A. NOT just for 15A.See how the box you highlighted is as big as all the breaker size in that section? And please check out these threads where this has been hashed to death already - always with the same outcome: I don't need those threads for this information. Thanks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 It cannot be compliant unless it is marked. You can find this rule at 110.14(A). It's not new. .................. Please provide a reference for your claim. When I go out to my truck I'll take a pic of a C-H CH breaker for you. My reference is that I know it from experience. Look at the catalogue. The CH115 breakers are the only Cutler Hammer breakers that can accept two wires. They have this information molded onto the side of the case. The double-tapped breakers in the original post are not CH115 breakers. Download Attachment: CHbreakers Catalogue Page.jpg 92.26?KB Just have to correct that bit, given that it was my highlighting I posted (somewhere?) many moons ago. It's not just the CH115...it's all in that upper box, CH110 thru CH130. The shaded "(2) #14-10" just happens to be on the same line as the CH115, but it applies to all five of those. Also all the 2-pole breakers in the same section (CH210 thru CH230). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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