Jerry Simon Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Seeing a lot where the *fixed* glass panel next to the swinging glass shower door, large/wide fixed panels, are only held in place on one side and along the bottom. No upper track and no support at other side. I can wobble these suckers back & forth like all get-out, and I worry kids will lean on 'em, or someone will slip and fall against 'em, and the panel will crack/fall/shatter or some such. Anyone know what I mean, and any thoughts on such? Again, to me, this is a relatively new type of panel install. (Yes, I realize it's tempered/safety glass, but still . . .) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I seem 'em all the time. I don't mention anything unless it's loose or otherwise defective. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I seem 'em all the time. I don't mention anything unless it's loose or otherwise defective. Loosey-goosey (I used the words floppy & wobbly in the report). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I had a project earlier this year where among other things that was a compliant I was called out to investigate. I did find a recommended practice regarding the maximum size of the fixed panel. I don't recall what it is. Also, I found that diagonal braces are sold that can be attached to the top of the panel to make it more rigid. Never seen one used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 It is the trend it seems. I write them up as flimsy and recommend reinforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Nice idea, but what does that mean? I'm not aware of any specification to refer to. Is there one? Lacking a spec, do we recommend reinforcement without any idea how to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Had one last week that would move 3 inches each way. If you never touched it, it would probably be OK, but if my 75 year old client slips and falls into it I'd guess it would come crashing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ben you're saying that the glass flexed three inches ?! I've been seeing these frameless showers for years, and they are always a heavy thickness of glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ben you're saying that the glass flexed three inches ?! I've been seeing these frameless showers for years, and they are always a heavy thickness of glass. Pretty sure he means the entire, rigid panel, can be wobbled back and forth three inches laterally either way. That's what I'm finding - or worse - and what I worry about. As far as a fix, an upper track isn't being used anymore, probably for aesthetics. Some sort of upper track should be installed IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 The ones I see have been solidly secure. Glass flexes (maybe) a 1/4". If the whole thing isn't secure, why wouldn't the recommendation be to secure or reinstall the panel? What about doors? All the doors I see are no frame, 2 pin hinges, no bracing, no nothing, and it moves. Why would a panel need reinforcement but not a door? I think if it's a solidly installed panel, they're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I agree they should be quite ridged, but they still give me pause when mostly freestanding. I had a door installed at my own house and had a hard time with the two pin and epoxy installation. Been a year and no problems. I do think of Alfred H and Janet L whenever around showers 'tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseason Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 In the movie they used chocolate syrup as the blood going down the drain. There's some dumb..s trivia, but now you'll think of it every time you watch the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ben you're saying that the glass flexed three inches ?! I've been seeing these frameless showers for years, and they are always a heavy thickness of glass. Yeah, this is her. Didn't measure it but I'd guess it was 3/8 thick. The door was hinged off the wall. The side that it "latches" on would move a lot. Click to Enlarge 22.59 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 OK, you're talking about loose hinges or hardware, or otherwise inadequately secured components. That's a problem. If the door sags, it can hit the adjacent panel or tile. Tempered glass impacting other pieces of tempered material can "explode", similar to if you set a large tempered panel down on concrete or similar hard surface. Few contractors put the necessary blocking in the wall. Some of these are only secured with drywall type anchors. That's bad. I used to question these things when I first saw them. I've seen dozens or hundreds by now. If they're secure, they're OK imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 This thing was close to 8-9 ft tall. Nothing supporting that right angle. A small C channel on the floor and wall just wasn't cutting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 I know. I see them like that all the time. How is it different than commercial doors or anything else that is similar? Go to an Apple Store. They're nothing but huge glass panels hung into space with a million people bumping into them. The first time I saw this kind of shower door, I didn't like it. I've googled the heck out of it for a couple years, and I can't find anything that says it's dangerous or wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of worrying about every permutation of possible danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 The links below shows some bracing hardware that is available and some guidelines on maximum panel sizes. http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/showl ... 928::28258 http://www.clearvueglass.com/upload/Sho ... Online.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 That's nice hardware. I've never seen it in any shower. The installation guidelines are good, but they don't make any reference to safety. It's all the usual stuff. Curious.... If shower glass is now a major safety concern, why don't we write up all shower doors, including those ubiquitous 3/16" cheap sliding shower doors? Those seem a heck of a lot more fragile than 3/8" or 1/2" material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Maybe I'm just tired of worrying about every permutation of possible danger. Amen!! We really do have a nanny society when folks are so dependent on others to tell them about common sense problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Maybe I'm just tired of worrying about every permutation of possible danger. Amen!! We really do have a nanny society when folks are so dependent on others to tell them about common sense problems! I agree. I have often taken flak for voicing my opinion regarding "saving the world". There are many inspectors that try to do just that, Usually the new ones. oh ya, my opinion is we can't save the world or report everything. Manage expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Sorrells Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 The hazard may not be the panels but the soap and water. No soap, No water means less slippage. Is this a good recommendation???? "It is recommended to not use soap or water in the shower enclosure." The panels are there to retain the water, not a couples mombo session are they?? Glass can be broken and that would be a hazard, so the fact that there is glass panels then there is a safety issue to write up also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 The hazard may not be the panels but the soap and water. No soap, No water means less slippage. Is this a good recommendation???? "It is recommended to not use soap or water in the shower enclosure." The panels are there to retain the water, not a couples mombo session are they?? Glass can be broken and that would be a hazard, so the fact that there is glass panels then there is a safety issue to write up also. And if the shower wasn't bad enough, this house had stairs. STAIRS I TELL YOU! Who the hell would build such a house? Truly a fall waiting to happen. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 That's nice hardware. I've never seen it in any shower. The installation guidelines are good, but they don't make any reference to safety. It's all the usual stuff. Curious.... If shower glass is now a major safety concern, why don't we write up all shower doors, including those ubiquitous 3/16" cheap sliding shower doors? Those seem a heck of a lot more fragile than 3/8" or 1/2" material. I have not seen the hardware used either. I found similar hardware when I was investigating a complaint about movement in a big class panel. The owner did not seem to be worrying about safety, but the big wobbly panel bothered them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 What about a full-glass shower door that bangs-into a toilet or a towel bar when opened? Anyone ever mention such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 What about a full-glass shower door that bangs-into a toilet or a towel bar when opened? Anyone ever mention such? no, but now I will pay more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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