dtontarski Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Is their a general consensus on whether the garage door opener should be on a GFCI protected circuit or not? I've read reasons for and against this, but I'm looking for the opinions of some of the more experienced inspectors that contribute to this forum on how they feel about this topic and what they recommend. Thanks! Dave Tontarski The Finger Lakes Region NYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 You might get nuisance trips with the older GFCI devices. The newer ones are not tripping like the older ones did from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 If there happens to be a GFCI on the garage circuit then there is surely a chance it could trip and prevent the functioning of the door. I think it is worth explaining this to the client. Given this possibility, I think its is also important to inspect and explain to the client the functioning of the emergency mechanical release mechanism of the opener. Make sure it releases easily. Make sure when it does release the door can be manually lifted with out too much effort. The tension springs might need to be adjusted to allow the door to be easily lifted. Especially with heavier older wood doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I can't think of a single advantage to having a garage door opener on a GFCI. Brian G. I Know Who Would Have to Get the Ladder & Reset It Too [:-irked] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi, The codes state that there is supposed to be a receptacle within reach of the opener's cord, don't they? GFCI's are not required where the receptacle is not readily accessible. I've never seen an opener's receptacle mounted where it is readily accessible. Unless they are using an extension cord, which is wrong, to power the receptacle, there's no reason why any competent and reasonable electrician would put GFCI protection on the opener circuit because a) it will be very difficult for the homeowner to reset the GFCI whenever it trips b) the tendency for the things to nuisance trip. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtontarski Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Mike - There is a receptacle outlet in the ceiling for the opener. This is on the same circuit as the garage wall and the exterior receptacle outlets. This circuit is protected by a GFCI receptacle outlet next to the service panel in the basement. Are there safety issues as well as convenience and nuisance tripping issues? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi, No, I don't see a safety issue. It would only constitute a safety issue if the door wasn't properly balanced, there was no emergency release handle, or it was installed too high, and/or the release was installed incorrectly or didn't function as it should. If the door traps someone, one must be able to reach and pull the emergency release handle and be able to lift the door. None of those would be the fault of the GFCI and it would come back to haunt the door installer. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Not to hijack the thread or go off on a tangent but are other non GFCI receptacles fed by GFCI receptacles also protected by the feeder GFCI? I thought they were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Sorry. OK, you have a GFCI receptacle that feeds non GFCI recptacle. Are both protected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 HUH? If it's wired properly, anything thatthe GFI is feeding with shut down if the GFI is tripped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 OK. What about a problem on the feed circuit? Will that trip the GFCI that feeds it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 No, in order for the feed circuit to be protected, the GFCI would need to be at the panel. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Originally posted by dtontarski Is their a general consensus on whether the garage door opener should be on a GFCI protected circuit or not? 210.8 requires all receptacles in garages to be GFCI protected *except* those that are not readily accessible and those that serve not-easily-moved appliances that are located within a dedicated space. If you have to use a ladder to reach it, a receptacle is not readily accessible. So, if the GDO is plugged into a receptacle on the ceiling, the NEC doesn't require GFCI protection. Of course, it doesn't prohibit it either. I've read reasons for and against this, but I'm looking for the opinions of some of the more experienced inspectors that contribute to this forum on how they feel about this topic and what they recommend. Thanks!Dave Tontarski The Finger Lakes Region NYS The issue is about to become moot. In the 2008 NEC, the two exceptions will go away. All receptacles in garages, regardless of their location or what appliances are plugged into them, will have to be GFCI-protected. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Darn it. I missed typed again. I typed feed. I meant to say fed. The branch that is "fed" from a GFCI outlet, are those items down line protected by the GFCI outlet that feeds them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Anything that is downline, being fed from from the GFI will shut down if the GFI is tripped. (if it is wired properly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctgo4it Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Originally posted by hausdok No, in order for the feed circuit to be protected, the GFCI would need to be at the panel. OT - OF!!! M. the way I understand it, anything fed through the GFCI, is protected, meaning it could trip, anywhere on the line even passed the GFCI, and the GFCI will break the circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hi,.....ctgo4it (Do you have a name? Names are so much nicer to respond to.) You are correct, but I was responding to his question about the line feeding the GFCI, which is upstream of the GFCI. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Originally posted by Jim Katen In the 2008 NEC, the two exceptions will go away. All receptacles in garages, regardless of their location or what appliances are plugged into them, will have to be GFCI-protected. It isn't quite as common as it once was here, but I still see deep freezes in garages now and then. Surely the NEC knows perfectly well that this is one of the more likely "not-easily-moved" appliances, but they're changing it anyway? I'd say that position, under those circumstances, is exactly the reverse of their rules regarding GFCI's and refrigerators in kitchens. I won't be advising my clients to plug their freezers in GFCI protected circuits, no matter what the NEC says. Dumb. Brian G. Sometimes I Wonder Where the Common Sense Goes [:-boggled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Originally posted by StevenT Anything that is downline, being fed from from the GFI will shut down if the GFI is tripped. (if it is wired properly). Ok got it. Now to expand. Suppose there is a GFCI receptacle on the garage wall. This GFCI receptacle feeds a non-GFCI on the ceiling that is used to plug in the door opener. Isn't it possible to wire it up so that even when the GFCI is tripped the power still gets fed to the ceiling receptacle powering the door opener? If I'm correct my point would be this. As far as how its wired, it may not always be a matter right or wrong. It may be a matter of preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozofprev Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 John writes: Isn't it possible to wire it up so that even when the GFCI is tripped the power still gets fed to the ceiling receptacle powering the door opener? Sure, but the splice should be made in the line, rather than connecting two wires to one terminal of the receptacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Originally posted by ozofprev John writes: Isn't it possible to wire it up so that even when the GFCI is tripped the power still gets fed to the ceiling receptacle powering the door opener? Sure, but the splice should be made in the line, rather than connecting two wires to one terminal of the receptacle. You can make the connections directly, but every GFCI receptacle I've seen has provisions for feed-through wiring with or without GFCI protection to the downstream wires. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Originally posted by Brian G. Originally posted by Jim Katen In the 2008 NEC, the two exceptions will go away. All receptacles in garages, regardless of their location or what appliances are plugged into them, will have to be GFCI-protected. [navy]It isn't quite as common as it once was here, but I still see deep freezes in garages now and then. Surely the NEC knows perfectly well that this is one of the more likely "not-easily-moved" appliances, but they're changing it anyway? Of course they know that. They're changing it quite deliberately. They want freezers in garages to be GFCI protected. I'd say that position, under those circumstances, is exactly the reverse of their rules regarding GFCI's and refrigerators in kitchens. There is no rule regarding GFCIs and refrigerators in kitchens. Outlets that serve countertop receptacles must have GFCI protection. If a fridge is plugged into a countertop receptacle, it must be GFCI protected. I won't be advising my clients to plug their freezers in GFCI protected circuits, no matter what the NEC says. Dumb. Why do you think it's dumb? Enumerate your reasons. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 That's what I thought. I just wanted to point out that it may appear as though the door opener could get interupted simply because its power source is a box which contains a GFCI outlet. The fact is it could be intentially wired to allow the door opener to remain operable even in the event of the GFCI trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Originally posted by Jim Katen Of course they know that. They're changing it quite deliberately. They want freezers in garages to be GFCI protected. I can't tell if you're serious or this a dose of extra-dry Katen sarcasm. Judging by what you followed with, I'll assume the former until otherwise informed. There is no rule regarding GFCIs and refrigerators in kitchens. I thought the code specified that outlets used for refrigerators did not have to be GFCI protected. Maybe I misunderstood, or picked up a piece of HI folklore somewhere. Outlets that serve countertop receptacles must have GFCI protection. If a fridge is plugged into a countertop receptacle, it must be GFCI protected. Dumb. I wouldn't consider doing it. I'd install a single recepticle and leave the GFCI out of it. Why do you think it's dumb? Enumerate your reasons. I'll just enumerate the big obvious one. If a freezer or fridge is on a GFCI circuit and the device trips, everything inside could be lost (nobody home, nobody notices, etc., particularly on those freezers in the garages). Improved though they are, GFCI's still trip for no apparent reason at times. Why in the world would you want a freezer or fridge on a GFCI circuit? Brian G. Gotta Watch Out for My Marie Callendar Dinners [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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