Robert Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Sorry guys, I don't get to many of these and want to be sure I am calling it the right product. Would this be EPDM? Click to Enlarge 34.32 KB Click to Enlarge 42.56 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Robert, Was there anything printed on it? Your photos look white to me. Not a lot to go on, but I'd make it PVC roofing. Damned near bulletproof when the seams are welded right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah sorry Jim, the day was typical Washington and over cast. I didn't notice anything printed on it and it was white, well now aged and a bit off white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Rob, A well-installed PVC roof with properly torched seams will hold water for 30 years. Were the edges lifting? Was there a lot of construction detritus on the roof? Walking it, did the underlayment give at all? Your photos look good, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hey Jim, No issues on that roof. The director of the home stated it was installed approx 7-8 yrs ago. The drains were clear and no seams or edges were lifting. No real evidence of pooling. It was solid. The only thing(s) left on the roof were 3 abandoned A/C units which were up on pallets. Thanks for taking the time Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Looks like PVC. EPDM is rubber, like a heavy rubber inner tube There is one brand name of PVC called "Durolast". You can google them and from their website request an information package that includes a small sample of the product. Worthwhile for learning. How do I know? I asked the same question a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I generally refer to that stuff as "TPO" (Thermoplastic polyolefin), but I believe it is interchangable with "PVC". I've sometimes found printing along the sheet edges on newer stuff. Click to Enlarge 29.04 KB It does look like you have some (relatively minor?) ponding issues in that 2nd photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 TPO is not PVC. Although TPO, PVC and CPE are all thermoplastic roof membranes, it's important to be able to identify each. For one example, there's been many issues with TPO formulations, resulting in failures not seen in PVC. Anyone inspecting commercial or apartment buildings should really consider taking a course in commercial roofing. I certainly wasn't qualified to identify materials and their installation requirements before finding the proper training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exploreparadise2 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Richard's photo probably is TPO because Firestone manufactures TPO and not PVC (PVC is not currently listed on their website). We can't assume that EPDM will always be colored black like an inner tube anymore. Firestone makes an EPDM with a white coating for decreased heat absorption. http://www.firestonebpco.com/roofing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 TPO is not PVC. Although TPO, PVC and CPE are all thermoplastic roof membranes, it's important to be able to identify each. For one example, there's been many issues with TPO formulations, resulting in failures not seen in PVC. Anyone inspecting commercial or apartment buildings should really consider taking a course in commercial roofing. I certainly wasn't qualified to identify materials and their installation requirements before finding the proper training. OK...my bad. I need to read up some more. I don't do commercial or whole complexes but I will get on condo roofs, when possible, for a quick gander at the common area roof. I may have mis-identified some stuff in the past, but I'm mainly looking for bad seams, ponding, etc. So I have a question...What's in the photos that would make the first few responders believe it is PVC and not TPO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 To me it looks to be Trocal (PVC). AT the curbs was the flashing metal with a coating on it that looked like the roof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 So I have a question...What's in the photos that would make the first few responders believe it is PVC and not TPO? Good question Richard - and I don't have a good answer, except PVC is what I'm use to seeing and what 1st came to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 TPO is more smooth surfaced than PVC; this is a fairly subjective analytical method, as the differences are very slight. You can see a little more scrim/fabric texture in PVC. Honestly, I've been fooled a couple times as the differences are minimal. TPO was developed to blend the positive characteristics of EPDM and PVC. It has the UV and heat resistance of EPDM with the hot air weldable feature of PVC's. And, it's white, so it's viewed as a more "green" roofing material. I can't tell which it is from the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 TPO is more smooth surfaced than PVC My experience has shown the complete opposite. I can't tell which it is from the photo.Neither can I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yeah, trying to tell them apart by the scrim texture is pretty vague, or impossible. I had a rep try to show me and honestly, I'm not sure I could tell the difference even with him standing there pointing out the differences. If it's newer, I'd guess TPO simply because that's the big push around here instead of PVC. If it's older, I'd guess PVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Richard, I guessed PVC because I don't think I've ever seen a TPO roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 OK, self correction because this is sort of a vague pathway...... Bill is right. The TPO has a slightly more visible scrim texture than PVC. I checked up, and I was wrong. At least, I think I'm wrong. It's really hard to tell the difference between the two. I do know that some of the early TPO's had a mega-problems with delamination/scrim separation, and none of the installers were welding it correctly. If it's older TPO, beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Sorry guys, I don't get to many of these and want to be sure I am calling it the right product. Would this be EPDM? My guess is TPO. I've seen a ton of PVC roofs and some TPO roofs. Every TPO roof I've seen has had plumbing vent boots that looked like the ones in your picture (the little stair-step jobbies). Some of them even had the letters TPO thoughtfully embossed on them. Not one of the PVC roofs I've seen has had that style of boot on it. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 So Jim, you would base an ID on the whether the roofer actually used the correct boots? Those are some pretty long odds. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 So Jim, you would base an ID on the whether the roofer actually used the correct boots? Those are some pretty long odds. Tom Yes, perhaps. On the other hand PVC and TPO might be hard to distinguish from one another, but not when they're both sitting there on the same roof under your very own fingers. If they used the wrong boots, I'll bet that I could tell. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaRoofer Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 A tpo boot would not weld to a pvc membrane. They are completely incompatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epdmcoatings Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think PVC is best now a days, there are so many companies offering the same brands but mostly people like this only, because of trust people have in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenfin Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Yeah it looks like EPDM, i have used this coating for my roof repairing, its really a good product, If its really EPDM than after using this you need not to worries for your roofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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