Terence McCann

Don't sell the forums short Mike. You have a really good brain trust setup.

The expansion tank is a can with a bladder and a pressure charge. Once the pressure is stabilized in the building it just sits there. Are you saying that the incoming water pressure is/was pulsating and that the expansion tank was pushing the water back out into the street? Then the water meter, not being able to run backwards, did not register the water going back out however did register the inrush again? I guess anything is possible but that would be a new one on me. Does anyone know if a water meter can run in reverse (I do not)? Also, if the water meter was defective you'd think that it would do it regardless of whether the expansion tank was present or not. Perhaps the water department can monitior the pressure for a few days and record the results.

What's the life expectancy in that type of application? Having 0 knowledge about these - do you have to de-lime them upon occasion?

A fault 3 code is "pressure switch stuck open" Armed with the information in your manual take a look at your installation and see what needs to be done with regards to supply and exhaust piping. Then, if you're skilled, tackle the job. If not the last tech who said the piping needs to be changed sounds like he's on the ball. Start with the obvious first. Good luck!

Well the expansion tank is not the problem but it is allowing the problem to surface. Start with the PRV first.

82 is pretty high. You really should install a PRV on the main. A stretch - perhaps the expansion tank is allowing for a higher pressure before pusing back? Also, a pain in the a$$ but you could shut off everthing in the home, toilets, sinks, the whole system except the main water shut off to see what happens. Then it is process of elimination.

Well... then the expansion tank really isn't a concern (with the exception of high incoming water pressure). Did you measure the incoming water pressure at a tap? Too high of an incoming water pressure will cause toilets to keep flowing.

That's a good one alright. Do you have a lawn sprinkler system? Do you have a water softening system in the home? Any chance of a cross connection with a toilet running (it can happen). A faulty solenoid valve on a humidifier? Your theory of the pressure fluctuating back and forth causing a problem is highly unlikely however. The thing I don't know for sure is if the water meter will record in reverse (kind of like driving a car in reverse and the odometer gig). You could put a check valve in the main water line to test your theory. With regards to the expansion tank: it is only there to allow the expansion of heated water some place to go (but you knew that already). Shut off the gas, or the electric, to the hot water heater tank and allow the water to cool - does the problem go away? Hopefully some food for thought. I dig problems like these - keep us posted.

The main blower that blows warm air out of the duct work or the little fan inside the furnace that is hooked up to the 2" pipe? There is also a little red LED (typically it will flash green if everything is normal) that will flash X amount of times when the furnace locks out on something (you can view it through one of the little plastic view plates in the main panels). If you look in the manual it will describe what each flashing pattern means. Flashing rapidly 6 times is a pressure switch problem, flashing rapidly 8 times is a faulty gas vale or flame rod etc. Have you checked this as well? One other point, the circuit board will store these fault codes in its memory (unless someone erases it). Next time a tech is out ask him/her what the past fault codes were.

Do you have the original manual that came with the furnace? In it they will clearly spell out what size pipe is needed for combustion and exhaust air. Fwiw I have a York 95% furnace that has 2" intake and exhaust piping and operates fine. When you say it comes on for 20 seconds and shuts off - what exactly shuts off? Does the whole unit shut down and not come back on? Does the burner come on for 20 seconds then shuts down but the blower motor starts and runs? Just recently my burner started to short cycle and then lock-out. Turned out to be a dirty flame rod - after cleaning it's running fine again.

The hot water part is easy. The building has a mechanical room somewhere with a domestic hot water system for the suites. With regards to the HVAC. Hallways, in this type of structure, typically have their own makeup air unit(s). More often than not though it's a rooftop MUA that feeds the hallways. This may explain the single unit on each floor. One HVAC unit, that is a VVT (variable volume, variable temperature) used for multi-zone purposes, is highly unlikely for all the reasons the others have given. The only way it *might* work is if the main unit had some type of air to air heat exchanger for return/fresh air. This way the return air is leaving the suites but is going through this heat exchanger so there is no mixing. The unit would still be a nightmare for temperature controls (the old lady likes it 80 degrees in her suite and someone like me likes it 65 degrees). Was it a dropped ceiling or a finished ceiling in the suites? How about the hallways? Ceiling hung water source heat pumps would be one option but all that any of us can do is guess. Before you send your report out call the citys building department and talk to the folks there about this property. Should be a good chance that someone there knows what's going on. A call to the local fire chief might help shed some light too.

Is the building a multi-story complex - something akin to an old multi-story apartment building?

An exhaust fan or HVAC unit? If it's just an exhaust fan I'd recommend replacment - you can set a new curb. If it's an HVAC unit, how many ton? A 5 ton rooftop HVAC is a lot different than a 75 ton Trane box car.

Cynic...

You'll do fine... It's natural that something like this becomes part of the kit.

Nice Kurt! I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before most of us carry them. I'm still looking for a price drop though. Edit: I just did a quick Google search - omg, I saw about 9k for the price, is it true? I'm pretty sure I could swing the car charger.

Year and address: 10 123 Anywhere St Mytown, OH 44444 I archive, burn to DVD then purge each year.

Are you saying that the furnace was an existing furnace and they installed a new A/C system and therefore the oversized plenum? There may be spots on the evap that will see poor air flow/stratification and be prone to freeze. The condensate line is wrong as well. I don't see a trap and it looks like it's way to close to the flu.

Yes. One of the lighter streaks is from the skin on my forearm and the other is from my left foot. Holy shite! If it were me there would be brown streaks as well. Tell the truth, a bit nerve racking??? 911, what is your emergency?

I should tell you of all the folks I've known in the Mechanical Contracting business over the last 27 years but alas, that would be a bore.

Everything in moderation. I'm always suspect of those that go beyond the edge..... justs weirds me out like some Koolaid thing. Sorry for polluting the thread....

Well, having said that Mike I don't think ASHI is a bad thing. In the world we live in we need folks, like the leadership in ASHI, to push the agenda in front of government (I need not get into the whole other discussion about law). Out of all the HI organizations I still think ASHI is the best. Do they still get a cock-eyed? - Yes. Having said that though the reason I like being a HI is that fact that I'm on my own. I've always been a lone wolf and will always be. I dig this gig and in a way I owe a part of this to ASHI. Make sense (in some distorted way)? btw, I still get a rash....

I hear ya. I'd be there in a heartbeat but if you're not ASHI in these parts you're not working. Howard-Hanna, the biggest firm here, has a standing rule to only use ASHI certified. That, and the fact, that belonging to any "clan" gives me a rash.

I'm thinking more along the lines of stupidity - that and trying to get something for nothing.