Robert Jones Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have not seen one of these before. This was installed below one of the master bathroom sinks. Is it a circulating pump? Click to Enlarge 44.56 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocon Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yes. Typically they are hard piped in near the water heater in the dedicated return line. This type is for a system that has no dedicated return line. You would see that one flex line is connected to the cold and one to the hot. It uses the cold water side as the return while pulling hot water through the hot line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 It is usually installed at the farthest point from the hot water tank. It’s to boost the hot water here is a pdf link about the device I have come across them a couple of times: http://www.faucetdirect.com/mediabase/s ... ochure.pdf John C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Jones Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Thanks guys. I have always seen the one's that are installed at the water heater itself. First time for this specific one. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomas1 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Depending on how those are installed, some jurisdictions may require a backflow preventer on the supply ahead of the return side of the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Minor point.....it's a "circulator", not a circulator pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 What's the point? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 What's the point? Marc Check Airway, Breathing, Circulation, in that order. He can be brain dead, but still breathing. [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Oh. Sounds like today's agent. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 This is good to know. I have not seen one of these, but did hear a guy discuss running a pump from his hot water heater for just that reason. Just curious, how do you suppose the pump returns water against the cold water pressure? Certainly you would have to have some pressure differential; i.e. higher circulator pressure than cold water pressure. but, how much higher until you had adequate flow? Bob Kenney www.IndependentHomeInspectionMD.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Brain dead........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 When you run into these, it's worthwhile to note the make & model number and download the installation instructions. Some can only be installed with the shaft in a vertical position and some can only be installed with the shaft in a horizontal position. The one is Rob's picture is made by Laing. It's correctly installed with the shaft oriented vertically -- the only way that Laing allows it. On the other hand, the Grundfos circulators are only supposed to be installed horizontally. If they're installed the wrong way, they'll burn up prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Just curious, how do you suppose the pump returns water against the cold water pressure? Certainly you would have to have some pressure differential; i.e. higher circulator pressure than cold water pressure. but, how much higher until you had adequate flow? You are mixing up pressure with flow. In a normal household system, with all faucets closed, the static pressure in the hot lines is equal to the static pressure in the cold. The pump is simply moving water around what is effectively a closed loop. It wouldn't be working against any incoming flow unless you had the cold faucet open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 I wasn't suggesting that the cold water would flow, only that the static pressure would prevent an impedance to the flow of hot water from the circulator pump. Enough volume (flow) of hot water would need to occur to move the hot water from the heater tank whatever distance to the remote pump, in a short enough time to raise the temperature at the circulator by the desired amount. You are right though about the static pressure being the same in both lines, and after I read that maybe it doesn't present that much of a difficulty. Just raise the hot water side above the static pressure and return it on the cold water line. Guess I'll have to buy one and find out....does take a little while to get hot water to my kitchen... Bob Kenney www.IndependentHomeInspectionMD.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 If a loop of piping is pressurized to 100psi static pressure, a pump that is displacing media only within the confines of that loop will not be influenced by the static 100 psi. It's the same way with the air we breathe, it's pressurized to a pressure of approx 14.7 (at sea level) psi but our lungs do not have to act against it to breathe. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 If a loop of piping is pressurized to 100psi static pressure, a pump that is displacing media only within the confines of that loop will not be influenced by the static 100 psi. It's the same way with the air we breathe, it's pressurized to a pressure of approx 14.7 (at sea level) psi but our lungs do not have to act against it to breathe. Marc Point well taken! I was envisioning this system as two independent sources; hot, cold. But of course you are right, it is a loop at the water heater. Bob Kenney www.IndependentHomeInspectionMD.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? No, it's not a "pump" - it isn't "pumping" anything. It's circulating water. OT - OF!!! M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? No, it's not a "pump" - it isn't "pumping" anything. It's circulating water. OT - OF!!! M. That defines a pump. IMHO Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? No, it's not a "pump" - it isn't "pumping" anything. It's circulating water. OT - OF!!! M. That defines a pump. IMHO Marc A circulator on a closed-loop system is a wet-rotor centrifugal pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpdewitt Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? As I understand it, these circulators can wear out copper pipes prematurely by "scouring" the pipe with continuously running water, so the timer is also beneficial to the plumbing. Set to be on only during potential use hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocon Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 The deluxe units have timers on them, or you could plug it in to a timer. It has to get expensive to run those things continuously. Would it be more correct to call it a circulation pump? As I understand it, these circulators can wear out copper pipes prematurely by "scouring" the pipe with continuously running water, so the timer is also beneficial to the plumbing. Set to be on only during potential use hours. I doubt that these pumps wear out pipes more than others. Could the braded lines wera out faster?... possibly. Typicaly scour occurs when the pipes are not reamed prior to sweating them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beal73 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Guys, this circulator does not run constantly or you would have hot water in your cold supply. Instead of running the shower for several minutes in the morning until the hot water gets to the shower head from the tank, the user will push a button located in the bath room so the circulator displaces the cold water in the hot lines. By doing this consumes no water at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Guys, this circulator does not run constantly or you would have hot water in your cold supply. Instead of running the shower for several minutes in the morning until the hot water gets to the shower head from the tank, the user will push a button located in the bath room so the circulator displaces the cold water in the hot lines. By doing this consumes no water at all. Yeah, that's the way some are installed; but the majority of them that I see out here are on a timer and there isn't any button to push. They're often set to come on about once an hour for a few minutes. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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