Mike Lamb Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 My nephew has an acrylic shower floor with three 1" smiles in it that are leaking to the room below. He can't afford a tear-out replacement at this time. I have googled acrylic repair kits for this problem. Does anyone have any experience with this repair? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yeah, they don't work. Maybe a few weeks, or even a month or two, but I'd bet against it if anyone was taking bets. I'd grudgingly concede that I did a liner that worked ok, but the patch kits I've used and seen don't work. A quick and dirty shower pan isn't about material cost; it's about surgical logistics. You can get a new pan for $50, 4x4 tile for 50 cents psf, etc. Going cheap, it'd be hard to spend >$100. It's just a pile of work. Maybe some of that black spray on stuff that's been on TV lately......you know, the one where the screen door is in the bottom of the john boat....(?)... Yeah, that'd do it. Get that black spray on stuff. The guy said it fixed everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 My nephew has an acrylic shower floor with three 1" smiles in it that are leaking to the room below. He can't afford a tear-out replacement at this time. I have googled acrylic repair kits for this problem. Does anyone have any experience with this repair? Thanks. I'm not aware of any retail-level repair kits that you can buy that will work. However, there are companies that specialize in fiberglass repairs. They can repair it just fine. I've seen holes the size of a 2x4 (framer dropped a piece of blocking) through the tub that were repaired so that you couldn't see the repair. I once inspected a house where a guy was there replacing the very bottom of a bathtub during the inspection. When I started, he was using a jigsaw to cut out the bottom of the tub. He was done before I was. The repair looked great and the the whole tub seemed much sturdier than it had before he started. The smiles are a failure of the substrate. It has to be repaired before the surface can be fixed. Any repair that only addresses the surface won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Would anyone have a photo of a 'smile' as used in this thread? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks. I'll pass along your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Would anyone have a photo of a 'smile' as used in this thread? Marc None that I could locate. They're very difficult to photograph. Imagine a hairline crack in a semicircle or arc shape, like a smile. They almost always deflect when you step on them. They're a failure of the fiberglass substrate. There are similar failures that looks like spiderwebs and stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Would anyone have a photo of a 'smile' as used in this thread? Marc None that I could locate. They're very difficult to photograph. Imagine a hairline crack in a semicircle or arc shape, like a smile. They almost always deflect when you step on them. They're a failure of the fiberglass substrate. There are similar failures that looks like spiderwebs and stars. I get it. Thanks. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi, I bet they'd installed that pan without anything extra to support the weight. I helped a fellow replace one of those inexpensive shower stalls a few years ago that had a couple "smiles" in the pan. They'd occurred in places where there weren't any support ribs molded into the underside of the pan. You could feel the pan move if you pushed on it with your heel between the support ribs. The instructions on the identical new pan didn't say anything about supporting the pan with anything extra (There were about a dozen ribs fanning out from the center, so it looked pretty rigid.), but I didn't want to take a chance on it failing again. I smeared some paint on the ribs, pressed the pan to the floor to reveal the pattern and then I mixed up some stiff bedding mortar, rolled out a bunch of thick breadsticks of the stuff that were deeper than the height of the cavity beneath the pan, laid them out between the rib impressions and then we carefully pressed that pan into position on top to compress the mortar bed and spread those breadsticks out beneath the pan between the ribs. Once it had set, we ended up with a nicely bedded pan with a nice solid feel to the bottom and absolutely no more flex in that pan between ribs when someone stood on it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi, I bet they'd installed that pan without anything extra to support the weight. I helped a fellow replace one of those inexpensive shower stalls a few years ago that had a couple "smiles" in the pan. They'd occurred in places where there weren't any support ribs molded into the underside of the pan. You could feel the pan move if you pushed on it with your heel between the support ribs. The instructions on the identical new pan didn't say anything about supporting the pan with anything extra (There were about a dozen ribs fanning out from the center, so it looked pretty rigid.), but I didn't want to take a chance on it failing again. I smeared some paint on the ribs, pressed the pan to the floor to reveal the pattern and then I mixed up some stiff bedding mortar, rolled out a bunch of thick breadsticks of the stuff that were deeper than the height of the cavity beneath the pan, laid them out between the rib impressions and then we carefully pressed that pan into position on top to compress the mortar bed and spread those breadsticks out beneath the pan between the ribs. Once it had set, we ended up with a nicely bedded pan with a nice solid feel to the bottom and absolutely no more flex in that pan between ribs when someone stood on it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Spray foam works well for the same purpose. It's one of the few valid uses for that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 It's true. I've retrofit crazy foam under cheesey pans and had it support things just fine. (We do some work for dirtbag landlords in addition to the high end stuff; I believe in a balanced revenue stream.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericwlewis Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 [:-thumbu]ditto the spray foam. We install showers and tubs in basements often where the floor is out of level (like it should be). We install the pan level, screw it to the studs and inject the foam from the perimeter. I comes out solid every time like the mortar install but much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yeah, they don't work. Maybe a few weeks, or even a month or two, but I'd bet against it if anyone was taking bets. I'd grudgingly concede that I did a liner that worked ok, but the patch kits I've used and seen don't work. A quick and dirty shower pan isn't about material cost; it's about surgical logistics. You can get a new pan for $50, 4x4 tile for 50 cents psf, etc. Going cheap, it'd be hard to spend >$100. It's just a pile of work. Maybe some of that black spray on stuff that's been on TV lately......you know, the one where the screen door is in the bottom of the john boat....(?)... Yeah, that'd do it. Get that black spray on stuff. The guy said it fixed everything. Undercoating in a can! [] Id like to watch him float that miracle boat down the missouri river! [:-eyebrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hi, I bet they'd installed that pan without anything extra to support the weight. I helped a fellow replace one of those inexpensive shower stalls a few years ago that had a couple "smiles" in the pan. They'd occurred in places where there weren't any support ribs molded into the underside of the pan. You could feel the pan move if you pushed on it with your heel between the support ribs. The instructions on the identical new pan didn't say anything about supporting the pan with anything extra (There were about a dozen ribs fanning out from the center, so it looked pretty rigid.), but I didn't want to take a chance on it failing again. I smeared some paint on the ribs, pressed the pan to the floor to reveal the pattern and then I mixed up some stiff bedding mortar, rolled out a bunch of thick breadsticks of the stuff that were deeper than the height of the cavity beneath the pan, laid them out between the rib impressions and then we carefully pressed that pan into position on top to compress the mortar bed and spread those breadsticks out beneath the pan between the ribs. Once it had set, we ended up with a nicely bedded pan with a nice solid feel to the bottom and absolutely no more flex in that pan between ribs when someone stood on it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Ive seen more than 1 carpenter lay out a layer of thick grout before installing pan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hi, I bet they'd installed that pan without anything extra to support the weight. I helped a fellow replace one of those inexpensive shower stalls a few years ago that had a couple "smiles" in the pan. They'd occurred in places where there weren't any support ribs molded into the underside of the pan. You could feel the pan move if you pushed on it with your heel between the support ribs. The instructions on the identical new pan didn't say anything about supporting the pan with anything extra (There were about a dozen ribs fanning out from the center, so it looked pretty rigid.), but I didn't want to take a chance on it failing again. I smeared some paint on the ribs, pressed the pan to the floor to reveal the pattern and then I mixed up some stiff bedding mortar, rolled out a bunch of thick breadsticks of the stuff that were deeper than the height of the cavity beneath the pan, laid them out between the rib impressions and then we carefully pressed that pan into position on top to compress the mortar bed and spread those breadsticks out beneath the pan between the ribs. Once it had set, we ended up with a nicely bedded pan with a nice solid feel to the bottom and absolutely no more flex in that pan between ribs when someone stood on it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Spray foam works well for the same purpose. It's one of the few valid uses for that stuff. Unless it expands moving the pan with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Unless it expands moving the pan with it Presumably, you'll have the unit secured in place along its flange. As long as the foam has at least one side where it can expand to, it doesn't tend to do much lifting. On the other hand, if there were nowhere for the excess foam to escape, it could blow the pan apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 A bag of gypsum mud is commonly used here for jetted tub support but the stuff cracks badly when it dries. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 My plumber used mortar when he set the shower pan for my basement bathroom. It might be worth a shot to squirt Crazy Foam under my nephew's pan for support before trying a topical patch. I'll run it by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Go to the auto parts store and get a polyester resin patch kit. It'll come with enough glass cloth to cover all the smiles. It'll stink like hell until it cures and look awful, but if he roughs up the surface it'll stick and stop up the leaks for under $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpdewitt Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Specialty auto body shops have been repairing fiberglass for decades (think Corvette), same thing with fiberglass motor home bodies. Must be possible. Might be a good idea to drill small holes where the smiles are and inject foam, then repair pan with resin and glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 It turns out the problem was more than cracks in the pan. My nephew repaired the shower floor with some sort of patch and felt he fixed the problem but it was still soaking wet after 2 weeks. I cut open the ceiling beneath and it turns out the drain was also leaking and the PVC trap was cracked. It has since been repaired and is not leaking after 2 weeks of use. The plumber says it is common to have leaky drains if these pans are not supported beneath. He fixed everything and sprayed Great Stuff foam. Epilogue. Last weekend's inspection had a fiberglass shower stall in a basement. I stepped into the stall and could feel the base flex. It was also leaking beneath. Live and learn. I am now reporting unsupported fiberglass shower floors if they flex, whether they are leaking or not. I didn't used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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