Mike Lamb Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 This shower stall in under construction. I don't know why. They plan on tiling back up to the old tiles with new. I am concerned about a cold joint next to the old grout and hairline cracks appearing. Is this a concern? Click to Enlarge 31.49 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 JMHO, but I think those "cracks" are way high up for the use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 JMHO, but I think those "cracks" are way high up for the use. I'm not sure what you are saying?? I am wondering if grouting old tile next to new will result in cold joint cracks in the grout. I have had that problem before trying to fix parts of a failed ceramic tub wall. Should all the tiles be removed to properly tile the walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've never made that kind of repair myself, but I've seen it done and it seems to work fine as long as the backer board joint isn't at the same place as the old tile/new tile joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Butt ugly biege floor tile? Isn't that reason enoug to pull 'em all off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Sorrells Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've never made that kind of repair myself, but I've seen it done and it seems to work fine as long as the backer board joint isn't at the same place as the old tile/new tile joint. Naaaaaaaaa, should not be a problem. Especially if the same bonding material is used for the replacement tile. Grout will set to old just as it will set to new edges. Though I have decided to have a new position on seats in the shower. Started using Kerdi waterproofing membrane to cover seat to the floor base drain. Belt and suspender protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Stop the presses. Look at that dipsquat liner install..... 1) The old tile didn't work because the vinyl pan liner isn't wrapped up over the bench. Their "repair" is putting back into place something worse than previous. The liner isn't even under the durock....how's it supposed to collect water? 2) Where's curb/threshold? The liner dies at the shower entry. Leaker on day 1. 3) The mud looks like it was placed wet; wrong color for a decent dry pack. Wet mud clogs up all the weepholes in the shower drain receptor. Waterlogged pan about 1 1/2 years from now. The stuff you're concerned with doesn't matter, not in light of the egregious mess they're putting back in. Also, Raymonds comment.....butt ugly institutional beige tile....for God's sake yes.......tear it out if you believe in truth. Now, a plug for Kerdi.....forget vinyl liners, mortar beds, and all that crap. I've done enough mortar beds that I got my own one bag mixer. Getting rid of all of it. Kerdi is the miracle of our time. Forget everything you thought you knew about tile beds, read up on Kerdi, adopt it as the be all and end all for any tile bed. I'll put up pics of my shower if anyone is interested..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'll put up pics of my shower if anyone is interested..... Sure. I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Listen to Kurt's advice. It does appear that there is a threshold, but the liner should wrap over the outside of the threshold. also, the liner should be behind the walls. Leaks at thresholds and seats are common. I have evaluates a number of newer shower installations with liners and it seems that quite a few are improperly installed. Look closely at corner details, floor slope, etc. A few that I have seen pulled apart they placed the liner right on the sub-flooring with no slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 .........they placed the liner right on the sub-flooring with no slope. It's epidemic. I wouldn't trust any vinyl liner anymore. Not a one. No one understands dry pack and how it's got to be worked to drive the grain to the bottom and bring the cream to the top. With no grain on the bottom, there's no drainage plane. Of course, it usually doesn't matter because the weeps are totally clogged. Then, there's the liner details themselves, which no one gets right. Not putting the liner up over the bench is mouth breather dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Start Click to Enlarge 92.18 KB Midway with Kerdi Click to Enlarge 40.33 KB Click to Enlarge 31.83 KB Click to Enlarge 64.3 KB Click to Enlarge 66.47 KB Click to Enlarge 74.46 KB Click to Enlarge 92.13 KB Click to Enlarge 78.98 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Am I seeing walls framed-out, ceiling framed-down and some flooring framed-up to accommodate plumbing and EMT that wasn't there when the building was first built? Like this wasn't originally a bathroom? Quite illuminating. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 There's a lot going on in a 60"x120" space. It's shimmed up, down, and sideways to square out a raw cob of 1910 solid masonry construction. Used foam panels for some of the squaring up; it's how they do it in Europe. The heck with wood; build it with rigid foam. It's a fully functional 5x10 bath for two people if one of them is Chinese. It was a full mortar bed bathroom. The wall and tub tear out was about 2 tons of material. We left the floor; it's another ton of 3" thick high compressive strength mud, and tiled right over it after skimming with leveling cement. You're looking at what was a 1910 bathroom, torn out, then a new adaption on early 20th century bath design ideas. When I get the shelf, train rack, hooks, and finish cabinets in, I'll put up another pic. It'll look like 1910 adapted to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Tarter Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 With that type of repair there would not be a cold joint. You would remove and replace old grout at joints between new and old tile. Looks like a failed shower pan being replaced. I would call it a work in progress, incomplete tile work, etc. Why speculate on whether its gets repaired right or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Sorrells Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Start Click to Enlarge 31.83 KB Click to Enlarge 64.3 KB Kurt, Am I seeing that you ran the Kerdi Membrane over drywall?????[:-bigeyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Absolutely. That's how it's done. The back wall is 2" XPS adhered to the masonry with big washer tapcons and goop, and a 1/4" foam Kerdi board adhered to the XPS. I would've gone straight Kerdi 2" foam, but I had to special order it and I didn't want to wait. In Europe, they "frame" the entire bathroom up with foam board inside of the old masonry shells. It works splendidly. It's part of the beauty of the system. Never again will I ever cut durock or mess with mud beds in any form when doing a shower. The drywall can rock the shower with the same stuff as the rest of the house. The other thing we learned was the requirement for USE ONLY UNMODIFIED THINSET is entirely unnecessary. We used a hyper modified unsanded thinset...that stuff that looks like mayonnaise. I talked to Fabry about it and he indicated he did something similar when he did his shower. The unmodified requirement goes to some corporate litigation mess where someone used the good stuff, didn't wait for it to dry, put on the membrane, then the tile, and the whole thing fell apart. We waited for the mayonnaise to dry before we tiled (24 hours). It works perfectly. The Kerdi folks have a lot of caveats about every aspect of installation, most of which I've found to be unnecessary. It's a remarkably common sense system once one does a few and understands how it works. Another discovered benefit of Kerdi...the shower dries out. All that mortar bed and durock that holds moisture is eliminated. The most water that can be held is in the grout lines and they dry out almost immediately. Even the tumbled marble I used for the floor dries out in a few hours. No moisture means no moldy grout lines. It's a completely brilliant system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADAIR Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 With that type of repair there would not be a cold joint. You would remove and replace old grout at joints between new and old tile. Looks like a failed shower pan being replaced. I would call it a work in progress, incomplete tile work, etc. Why speculate on whether its gets repaired right or not? clients can't trust contractors to do it right we're called in to assure it's done right therefore we "can" prescribe what is used & how it's done contractor gets an education, client gets work paid for, we get paid...win for everyone concerned great gigs when they occur...this type work is not for the uncertain or weak of heart Click to Enlarge 41.29 KB Click to Enlarge 46.92 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 .......we're called in to assure it's done right, therefore we "can" prescribe what is used & how it's done Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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