Phillip Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I hardly see any step flashing in my area. The J flashing aks rake flashing (which it is called in my area ) works. The only time I see any leaks from it is when it is installed wrong. Lapped backers or no kick out at the lower edge of the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Will try to post some pictures from the inspection report tonight provided that this site will easily let me do it and the inspector is ok with it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Will try to post some pictures from the inspection report tonight provided that this site will easily let me do it and the inspector is ok with it.. Here are some pictures (hopefully) Click to Enlarge 122.59 KB Click to Enlarge 99.77 KB Click to Enlarge 133.73 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 And here's one more pic: Click to Enlarge 139.96 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Click to Enlarge 133.73?KB This is exactly why this is a bad idea. Proper detailing is what makes these junctions work. Throw that out and everything else gets improvised. They even botched the lazy valley detail. FTR, I don't dislike that valley method, but for crying out loud how hard is it to cut the angle correctly? If this level of finish is acceptable, what on earth are they allowed to cover up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yeah, that's a crappy install, shingles and flashing both. You say this builder has a good reputation? Not in my book. Again, I doubt it'll leak though hurricane winds will rip those shingles beginning with the ones over the j-flashing at the eaves. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 . . . Here are some pictures (hopefully). . . . Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 When I see 'em like that I like to use my best Bugs Bunny voice right in front of the client. "Ho boy, what a maroon!" ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Well the realtor says the builder says that the builder will fix the flashing presumably before close. So all of this is helping me decide what to do. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Well the realtor says the builder says that the builder will fix the flashing presumably before close. So all of this is helping me decide what to do. Thanks! Despite the highly amusing photos that you posted, I still say that it's not worth repairing until it's time to replace the shingles. In fact, I'll bet six Heath Bars that, if the builder does try to fix it, he'll screw it up worse than it is now and make it more likely to leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Honestly, what concerns me most about those photos from Buster is the condition you can easily see in the second photo where the flashing stops well short of the fascia and the drip cap. There will be way too much water draining where it shouldn't at that joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Honestly, what concerns me most about those photos from Buster is the condition you can easily see in the second photo where the flashing stops well short of the fascia and the drip cap. There will be way too much water draining where it shouldn't at that joint. I think I'm getting increasingly scared.....So if they try to fix it, they'll likely make it worse, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Is a roof repairable, or is it better to just start over? I'm mulling over the idea of asking the builder to have a roofing company of my choosing inspect and repair the roof as a contingency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Is a roof repairable, or is it better to just start over? I'm mulling over the idea of asking the builder to have a roofing company of my choosing inspect and repair the roof as a contingency. It can be fixed. If your trust in the builder is bad enough that you want to get your own roofer, maybe it's time to walk. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Is a roof repairable, or is it better to just start over? I'm mulling over the idea of asking the builder to have a roofing company of my choosing inspect and repair the roof as a contingency. It can be fixed. If your trust in the builder is bad enough that you want to get your own roofer, maybe it's time to walk. Marc Well the roof appears to be the major issue, but per the guy for Oregon's reply, he's concerned that the builder will only make it worse. So maybe I would just. we'd to get any repairs inspected... Thanks a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 The reason rake flashing is is because the siding will have to be removed to take the step flashing out when the roof is replaced. With rake flashing you do not have to take the flashing off when the shingles are replaced. If you are going to have the flashing changed to step flashing, installed a counter flashing that goes under the siding so the step flashing can be removed with have to remove the siding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Thanks Philip! I'll see if the contractor will be willing to do that. I will talk to him on Monday morning to see if we can come to an agreement... I wonder why J flashing has become so prevalent... Is it because the majority of roofers nowadays only know and employ J flashing? It sounds like step flashing installation is more involved and complex, requiring interleaving layers of flashing with shingles.. Has step flashing become a dying art? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 What if you just use the vapor barrier/siding for counter-flashing, leave the lower part of the step flashing exposed for two inches and avoid putting siding nails through it? Click to Enlarge 76.18?KB You'll need some angled blocking between the studs to provide a nail base for the tapered sections of siding. Jeff, step flashing is a lot more trouble than J flashing. Unless the buyer is diligent, lots of corners are cut on a house to save the builder money. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Whitmore Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Has step flashing become a dying art? Ha-- not unless all of the step flashing professionals moved to Oregon....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Flashing in general has become a dying art. It has been replaced by flanges, tape, mastic and channels. It started in the 70's when brickmold gave way to nail fins. It's coming back because manufacturers are requiring it but its an up hill battle, they have conditioned builders to avoid it. Unless that J flash (we really need to come up with a more accurate name) is made of steel or copper it won't last any longer than (read: probably not as long as) the cover. If the builder is tight enough to pinch the $6 it would have cost in labor and material to step flash that correctly I would guess it's the thinnest, cheapest coil he could get his hands on. I only see that silliness here when they cover an existing house in corrugated steel. Every one of them leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi, Well, even if you can get him to flash it with step flashings, can you trust him to flash it correctly? Seriously, if he's so incompetent that this is the best he can do, I don't know that I'd trust him to install step flashings. He's liable to lap them the wrong direction or place them on the wrong side of the WRB or any number of other things that will cause a leak. If you can get him to redo those with step flashings, send those photos to the shingle manufacturer's technical assistance department and ask if they have a local rep available who can go out there and give this guy an on-site tutorial. Alternatively, there are dozens, if not hundreds of sites on the net that he can go to in order to learn how to install step flashings correctly. He has plenty available to him. If he's unwilling or too incompetent to figure out how to do it right, hire a different roofer - one that knows how to do step flashings - to correct it for you. Then take him to small claims court to recover the cost of hiring the second roofer. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Thanks! I greatly appreciate all of your suggestions and advice!!!! Well, this is a builder inventory home, so I just need to get something done or put in writing to guarantee that it will be fixed. The builder started talking about warranty, but then I imagine it will be too late. I meet with him tomorrow, and I think I need to determine the details of what he plans to do. One question.... One of the big hassles with replacing the cont. flashing with step flashing appears to be removing/replacing the hardiplank... Is it possible or a good idea if the builder cuts the J flashing off at the bottom of the siding on the side wall so that the portion of the J channel flashing under the siding still remains)? Then the builder could wedge the step flashing between the remaining strip of J flashing and the vapor barrier? Reason I ask this is I saw a video which indicated that the step flashing should only be nailed down either on the roof or the siding, but not both to prevent cracking of the step flashing when the house settles. If this is possible, then it would prevent the need to try to remove or replace the Hardiplank siding over the current J channel flashing. Is this a good idea or really bad idea? Thanks again! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Thanks! I greatly appreciate all of your suggestions and advice!!!! Well, this is a builder inventory home, so I just need to get something done or put in writing to guarantee that it will be fixed. The builder started talking about warranty, but then I imagine it will be too late. I meet with him tomorrow, and I think I need to determine the details of what he plans to do. One question.... One of the big hassles with replacing the cont. flashing with step flashing appears to be removing/replacing the hardiplank... Is it possible or a good idea if the builder cuts the J flashing off at the bottom of the siding on the side wall so that the portion of the J channel flashing under the siding still remains)? Then the builder could wedge the step flashing between the remaining strip of J flashing and the vapor barrier? Reason I ask this is I saw a video which indicated that the step flashing should only be nailed down either on the roof or the siding, but not both to prevent cracking of the step flashing when the house settles. If this is possible, then it would prevent the need to try to remove or replace the Hardiplank siding over the current J channel flashing. Is this a good idea or really bad idea? Thanks again! Jeff I wouldn't gamble on it. As an inspector, I'd never condone it for any of my clients. You're paying for a new house. You deserve it done right. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster_houston Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Well, the builder won't replace the J channel with step flashing, he will only perform minor repairs to the roof flashing - such as repairing the flashing in the picture with the valley. One concern that came up with the shingles directly over the lip of the J channel flashing is the possibility of the shingles breaking in the Houston heat as they expand and contract. Are there any minor changes that can be made to keep this from happening? Thanks! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm not aware of any such issue. Haven't seen anything fitting your description. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.