Brandon Whitmore

I don't necessarily tell them not to attend, but let them know that I am able to focus much better on the job at hand without distractions. I let them know that they are welcome to attend as much of the inspection as they wish, but that there isn't a need to do so. I spend as much time with them at the walk through stage as they wish, and haven't heard any complaints about my process. Many of the Realtor's that still refer me seem to like this approach, since they don't have to sit around the house for hours. Others still prefer to hang out and watch me work. I'm still waiting for my first complaint/ request for a refund since I've been self employed.

I prefer having nobody around, and make it known to the client and agent. They show up at the end, and we do a walk and talk. Works for me.....

My understanding is that there are thermal release device reset/repair kits for at least some of the manufacturer's water heaters such as Rheem/Ruud/Richmond/GE.... I believe that if there's a true flammable vapor incidence, the manufacturer calls for water heater replacement. If the safety fails for other reasons, then repairs are possible.

Do they not use pans over there?

You should have a strong odor of unburned nat. gas and aldehydes (car exhaust smell) upon initial firing, and then it will usually clean up as it burns. The amount of smell will change depending on how many elbows in the vent pipe, length of pipe, etc. I respond to odor calls (gas leak reports) weekly due to these high efficiency furnaces. It's usually nothing......

Thanks for the replies; thought I was going crazy for a sec.

Shouldn't there be continuous ventilation, with a 1" air gap in between the batt insulation and roof sheathing in between each rafter bay? And I'll bet that the warning on the paper facing says that it can't be left exposed......

Yes, I carry a sniffer, set to PPM. No, I don't sample inside the fireplace. If I sense something is wrong, I stop and figure it out. My nose will often let me know if raw gas or air has been bleeding for some time, even with the glass in place. Gas log fireplaces/ appliances are typically not 100% sealed, Bleeding thru the flex connector/union, etc. beneath the "firebox" isn't always simple, and then we get call backs on odor/gas leak calls because the smell lingers. There are other ways to purge such as using a battery that I won't use due to the concern of gas build up in the unit. I think it all comes down to experience, what you are comfortable with on a given piece of equipment, etc. Also, I can tell how much air is in the lines based on how other pieces of equip. are firing, so I'm not really bleeding gas through the pilot tube the entire time. The reason I used my example wasn't to say that it was the best, or even a good way of doing things. It was used to say that I don't believe the customer was "flooding" the fireplace during the light up attempt. Would you agree with that statment? Oh, and thanks for posting your example, I appreciate it.

Can I get more details? I'm going to guess that the delayed ignition wasn't due to someone trying to light a pilot, but am curious.

I know what the manufacturer's lighting instructions say, and expected someone to chime in that what I was doing was technically wrong. I work for the local gas company as a service tech., and do this procedue daily, as do many others, with absolutely no problems. I'm far from attempting to cause delayed igntion. The only time I've run into a delayed ignition concern is when the burner gas is flowing, and ignition doesn't occur when it should, or if the ASO has failed. The pilot orifices are tiny, and I think it would take a very long time to pool natural gas up to that 4.7% range even if the vent were partially obstructed. Now if there were no vent, and the unit were sealed, I wouldn't be purging for a long period of time through the pilot.

Here's a fun one for you.... Fill a metal coffee can with natural gas by laying it upside down (lid down) and running a gas hose/tube into a partially open lid. Then, punch a small hole in the top of the can (punch thru metal) and light the "hole" area-- this will make a candle. Then, let the coffee can candle burn until you get down to 15% concentration of gas inside of the can-- you'll enjoy what happens next. It's much more explosive impressive while doing this in a dark room.

If natural gas and not propane, I doubt this is possible. When I go into a home to fire equipment, I stick a small screwdriver in at the control knob to hold the magnet down. Then, I walk away to fire all of the other equipment for anywhere from 2-20+ minutes- this helps purge the line of any air. When I come back and fire these things up, the biggest "flash" I've gotten is maybe the size of a golf ball. Nat. gas can ignite at anywhere from appx. 4.7- 15% , and has a specific gravity of .60 ish. That means that the gas just vents out of the fireplace as the line is being purged.

I often find intermittently firing pilots when the sparker tip is out of adjustment or the pilot assembly is dirty.

With a piezo (BBQ spark) lit standing pilot type fireplace, the only safety is the ASO (automatic shut off) valve. The thermocouple or thermopile must generate enough milli-voltage to energize the electromagnet built into the gas control valve. That magnet is what you are manually holding in by pushing in the gas control knob on the pilot setting. Once enough voltage is generated, the magnet then keeps the magnet in place and allows gas to flow. Off the top of my head, I don't know why the fireplace would act that way....

I often write up flashing issues such as the one shown Stephan's example. Obviously, a marble isn't necessary to prove a point that water will drain off the edge, and possibly into the wall at that location. If contractors could be trusted to isntall a proper WRB, then this wouldn't really matter, but they can not.......

The duct likely needs to be metal, but you'd have to check with the microwave manufacturer's instructions. (M1503/M1504)

Each situation is different for me; it's a case by case basis. If there's an obvious backslope, especially when siding is pushed down against the flashing or when water looks like it will travel over and seep in behind the siding at flashing ends, I'll write it up. PS: I don't carry any marbles, but thanks for the great idea.

Just to help with future searches......... It sounds like you had a bad Intermittent Pilot Ignition control module...... Was the box green by chance? I run into a bunch of those ones that have failed.

Great question that has recently been discussed. One of the tech's said that he'd love to be the QA's QA guy. Basically, if we disagree with a QA write up, we must discuss the issue with our supervisor. If the supervisor agrees with us, he pushes to get the points back. In most cases, I've found the QA guys to be pretty fair. On this one, I disagreed w/ QA and tried to get the points back for my buddy. He wrote that the discharge pipe should be within 6" of the ground, while the QA guy said he was wrong and that it was within 18".

I've always tested them, because I don't want a call like yours.

I use something similar to this: tester

The reason for this post was that one of my buddies at my day job wrote " extend discharge pipe within 6" of the ground" and got written up by QA for providing improper info. I was digging for something that would have exonerated him since it was an older installation. QA wrote him up, and provided the wrong info. as well...... Our job depends on our annual QA scores.

I went to Watt's website before posting. One of their last sentences states that where the installation instructions differ from local code, that the local code needs to be followed. Thanks a bunch for the archived list.

Jim, Within the last 15 years in OR, has it ever been "within 6" of the ground" for garage sets like it is in the IRC?? Thanks..

I got the 6-12" from the 2011 version. 608.5 is where I looked. See here 608.5 #3 : 2011 The 2008 version isn't very clear. For exterior termination points, the discharge pipe must be between 6-24" from the ground, or greater than 16' from the ground. Other Approved Locations doesn't specify the height. I'm assuming this caused some issues, and is the reason behind the change to the 2011 version??