Brandon Whitmore

Do any of you Oregon guys have the history of code changes regarding water heater discharge pipe clearances from the ground? Specifically, in a garage when plumbed to the slab floor. I'm looking for a history for the last 20 years if possible.... 2011: between 6-12" of the ground. 2008: Strange wording-- I don't really know based on chapter 6 2005:? 2002:? 1999:? 1996:?

Thanks y'all. There was a debate on this while I was still on- site... I was sure enough that it was wrong that I sent out report out before getting a definitive answer.

Is the water heater directly in front of the furnace?

I haven't see that exact water heater, but the bottom pipe is for combustion air, as Garet already said.

This is the kitchen range wiring. It looks like someone cut the plug off and hardwired the cord. Is this allowed? My guess is no, since the cord/ plug was a listed component. I just can't recall seeing this exact installation before, and figured I'd better ask. Click to Enlarge 46.92 KB If memory serves, a range can be hardwired if proper wiring is used, the wiring is properly secured/ connected to the junction box, and if there's a lock out.

That's true in theory; NPT is supposed to seal up without thread sealant. There's at least one pipe dope (blue crap) that tends to prevent a proper pipe to pipe seal.

My fairly useless degree is in structural fire science..... Kyle, Thanks for bringing this post back up. I needed the reminder to look into this more.

That doesn't look right to me.

I've seen them-- they're at NW Natural's appliance center: XR90 I think that small one had a 65,000 btu burner, while most standard 40/50 gal. units have 36-40k burners.

The burner cover tee cap is a nice touch.

What kind of water heater is it? For the standard water heater with a natural draft and standing pilot..... There's a lot of possible causes, and often it's multiple issues. 1)Thermocouple issues: a)Weak thermocouple--thermocouple just puts out enough milli- voltage to hole the magnet open. When the pilot wavers, MV drops just enough to kill the pilot. 2)Weak electromagnet in the gas valve. This is the magnet that is energaized when you are lighting the pilot. When you hold the knob down and light the pilot, you are holding the magnet down until energized enough to stay open. If it's a weak magnet, the gas valve needs replaced. 3)Loose G-bushing: That's the gas valve end of the thermocouple. Check and make sure it's tight. 4)Dirty pilot: Ensure there's a sharp blue flame. A blue flame itself doesn't mean anything. The pilot orifice could be partially plugged causing a weak pilot that may not be striking the thermocouple well. When the flame kicks off, the weaker flame can dance off of away from the t-couple, causing the pilot to drop out. There's probably plenty more, but I'm going to bed and don't want to think too hard right now. Typically, the main causes are a combination of a dirty pilot along with a weak magnet or bad/weak t-couple. NOTE: Thermocouples burn out fairly quickly when the flame isn't hitting the proper area. The pilot flame should only hit the top 3/8"-1/2" of the t- couple. (hot junction).

Having a thermocouple that goes bad is hardly a reason to not buy a water heater. They cost a few bucks, take a few min. to replace, and last for years.

I consulted on a big job a couple of years ago where we (electricians and I) found 120v. on the metal gutter system..... Took them about 4 hours to locate the cause.

Does the company that supplies Nat. Gas (assuming it's not propane) have service tech's that will do free diagnostics and possibly repairs? They do around here..... Call your local gas company and find out.

Thanks Les, I checked a few manufacturers NPT thread sealant products, and it looks like the max. temp. rating varies, but is in the 300-500deg. range.

As far as I can ascertain, we have zero standards regarding testing/inspection standards regarding housepipe exposed to heat/ fire. That's why I was trying to find something externally that I could take to the higher ups. I'd like to see that change.

Ummmm.... that's me. When we're told there has been a house fire, we pull the meter. As soon as we are told the customer wants service restored, we install a meter and activate service. We don't have any standards regarding exposures to fire, etc. I tell contractors they need to do a pressure test, but I guarantee most don't do it. On Thursday, I showed up at a house where we were told there was a house fire. The entire basement was black. The "fire restoration" contractor was there, and I told him we were pulling the meter. He was upset and told me he needed heat and hot water by Sunday. How someone could be living in those conditions, I don't know. The upper level must have smelled something awful. The original cajun style water heater was sitting next to a brand new 80% furnace that was in operation. They at least sealed the return air registers and ran a return air duct to the exterior of the house. I told them they should have all pipes inspected/ pressure tested, but of course we were called to restore gas service the following day.

Are any of you aware of any testing standards regarding natural gas piping that has been exposed to fire. I ran into an unusual sitation the other day, and want to CYA.. Thanks.

Any of the newer stuff will state something about the fact that the paper facing shouldn't be exposed, so there's that........

Jumper Wires....

Oh, but these newer ones do, you just have to read the fault codes.......

The flame needs to be sharp blue. Try taking a toothbrush (no toothpase[]) and brushing off the inside of the hood,t-pile, etc. Then, take some compressed air and blow off the pilot assembly really well. Next, re- light the pilot and see if that helped any. If not, the pilot orifice likely needs to be cleaned.

As long as there is no belly in the line, it should be good to go......

If you want to rule out the switch and any other wires in series w/ the switch, just jump the 2 outer terminals at the combination valve. One will be Th/TP and the other TH. You should hear a slight click when you connect. If not, it's probably an issue with the t- pile- keep in mind it could just be loose connections..

The thermopile is similar to a thermocouple in that you heat the bi metal (copper/nickel usually) which creates milli- voltage due to the temp. difference between the tip (hot junction) and lower portion (cold junction). A thermopile is basically a bunch of t-couples all grouped up. The thermopile could be getting weak, and may not be generating much milli- voltage. It shouldn't take long for the t-pile to generate enough milli voltage to open a gas valve. The pilot may just be dirty-- ensure there's a sharp blue flame hitting the top 3/8-1/2" of the thermopile only. If the flame is dirty, this will cause problems. If the flame hits the wrong area of the t- pile, this will cause issues. Check for voltage drop across the wires for the switch, any limit switches, etc. A good thermopile should get somewhere in the 500-800 mv range when not under load. So, light the pilot, let it burn for 30 seconds or so, and check the reading at the 2 leads where they attach to the combination valve. Sorry if the above couple of posts make no sense- I'm on daddy duty and bouncing back and forth....