Missing Lintel?

[Ben H]

What's the deal behind the solider coarse with no support? Half the house had lintels, the other half didn't. Lame mason?

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[Bill Kibbel]

Looking at the pic, it's probably not installed like this:

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[Ben H]

So you run a piece of re-bar through the brick to hold it into place while the mortar sets? I'm assuming this is only allowed in this situation, meaning not bearing any more weight than it's own.

I'll bet your right Bill. Total of 6 windows, all the soldiers waved at you as you walked by. What did they REALLY do? Plywood support while the mortar set?

[mgbinspect]

Looking at the pic, it's probably not installed like this:

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Interesting detail... The rendering really appears to show a typical 10" or 12" concrete block, given away by the slot in the middle, which permits a mason to easily cut the unit into half units with a brick hammer or chisel. Yet, the text identifies it as a brick. I never ran across a brick with such a generous core.

That is indeed a lame installation. Fortunately, it's just the one soldier course and it's not structural. It appears that, if one pulls the frieze board, the soldier will fall right out of the wall. Nice! I fear there are no true masons left....

[Ben H]

Another thought I had was the windows are nail flange style and where installed first. The brick was then installed on top of the window frame, using it as a shelf.... just a WAG though.

[Bain]

I see it all the time, Ben. The reasons why are plain ol' ineptitude and laziness.

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[mgbinspect]

So you run a piece of re-bar through the brick to hold it into place while the mortar sets? I'm assuming this is only allowed in this situation, meaning not bearing any more weight than it's own.

I'll bet your right Bill. Total of 6 windows, all the soldiers waved at you as you walked by. What did they REALLY do? Plywood support while the mortar set?

Back in my masonry days, even with a lintel present, the frieze was almost always in place, which was nice, because you could slide the brick up in behind the board to rest tightly against it, which made for a nice tight fit. But, we'd have NEVER installed brick on a window head without support. Even the formal request to do so would have been met with bewilderment and vehement resistance.

[Tom Raymond]

I'm curious, is this soldier a result of modern truss design? Before 'energy trusses' the frieze would have been at the top of the window and with rafters the soffit would rest atop the brickmold, there would be no soldier course.

[mgbinspect]

I'm curious, is this soldier a result of modern truss design? Before 'energy trusses' the frieze would have been at the top of the window and with rafters the soffit would rest atop the brickmold, there would be no soldier course.

Hmm... as far back as I can remember, there is always about six to seven inches between the top of the window and the bottom of the frieze board, which acommodated a soldier or jack arch nicely. That seems to work about right with the fact that windows tend to be about twelve to fourteen inches down from the ceiling.

[Marc]

I'm curious, is this soldier a result of modern truss design? Before 'energy trusses' the frieze would have been at the top of the window and with rafters the soffit would rest atop the brickmold, there would be no soldier course.

Hmm... as far back as I can remember, there is always about six to seven inches between the top of the window and the bottom of the frieze board, which acommodated a soldier or jack arch nicely. That seems to work about right with the fact that windows tend to be about twelve to fourteen inches down from the ceiling.

Allowing for regional differences...the top of windows and doors are generally at 7'. With 8' ceilings, this puts the bottom of the ceiling joists at 97" from the subfloor. If the rafters sit on top of the walls, alongside the joists, the elevation of the structural frieze board depends on the pitch of the roof and the width of the overhang. An 18" overhang at a 6/12 pitch is a 9" drop. Add to that the height of the plumb cut on the bird's mouth and you have only 2 1/2" left which is the measurement from the frieze to the window RO.

Lots of variations and details on that within a given region, but that's a common scenario in my area, including my own house.

Marc

[mgbinspect]

I'm curious, is this soldier a result of modern truss design? Before 'energy trusses' the frieze would have been at the top of the window and with rafters the soffit would rest atop the brickmold, there would be no soldier course.

Hmm... as far back as I can remember, there is always about six to seven inches between the top of the window and the bottom of the frieze board, which acommodated a soldier or jack arch nicely. That seems to work about right with the fact that windows tend to be about twelve to fourteen inches down from the ceiling.

Allowing for regional differences...the top of windows and doors are generally at 7'. With 8' ceilings, this puts the bottom of the ceiling joists at 97" from the subfloor. If the rafters sit on top of the walls, alongside the joists, the elevation of the structural frieze board depends on the pitch of the roof and the width of the overhang. An 18" overhang at a 6/12 pitch is a 9" drop. Add to that the height of the plumb cut on the bird's mouth and you have only 2 1/2" left which is the measurement from the frieze to the window RO.

Lots of variations and details on that within a given region, but that's a common scenario in my area, including my own house.

Marc

Indeed, and Richmond being of the religion of the Colonial Williamsburg Replica, the scenario I descibed prevails here - limited overhang.

[Tom Raymond]

That's what I see here,Marc, and the reason for my question. A modern truss extends a 6" bottom chord to the exterior shifting the overhang upwards, and if we delete the brickmold like the pics in this thread, that leaves 8" for a soldier course. Gee, aren't bricks usually 8"?[:-graduat

[Marc]

That's what I see here,Marc, and the reason for my question. A modern truss extends a 6" bottom chord to the exterior shifting the overhang upwards, and if we delete the brickmold like the pics in this thread, that leaves 8" for a soldier course. Gee, aren't bricks usually 8"?[:-graduat

Indeed Tom. It's a possibility.

Marc

[Ben H]

Not to re-hi-jack the thread What would you chaps write up about said missing lintel? I took the easy way out on this one and called for a mason, but what would you say?

[mgbinspect]

Me personally, I'd disclose it as an unconventional brick veneer installation - not a structural issue - just a really lousy veneer job. As long as the frieze isn't remover, the brick's not going anywhere, and since it (the brick) bears no weight, repairs or modifications aren't paramount and will become more of an eye-sore than the existing condition.

It's unfortunate, but not a threat to structure or safety concern.

(Maybe when I see a bigger picture of it than on my phone, I might change my mind about the threat to safety)

In short, I'd fully disclose it as what it is: a cosmetic mess; an improper use of materials; a bad detail; all pretty much cosmetic.

[Bain]

Me personally, I'd disclose it as an unconventional brick veneer installation - not a structural issue - just a really lousy veneer job. As long as the frieze isn't remover, the brick's not going anywhere, and since it (the brick) bears no weight, repairs or modifications aren't paramount and will become more of an eye-sore than the existing condition.

It's unfortunate, but not a threat to structure or safety concern.

(Maybe when I see a bigger picture of it than on my phone, I might change my mind about the threat to safety)

In short, I'd fully disclose it as what it is: a cosmetic mess; an improper use of materials; a bad detail; all pretty much cosmetic.

Well, but I see this mistake fairly often, Mike, and lots of times the bricks are loose and can be moved by hand. Look at the upper/right corner of Ben's photo. The mortar's cracked and I'll bet the brick is loose. I ALWAYS say this should be repaired.

[mgbinspect]

Me personally, I'd disclose it as an unconventional brick veneer installation - not a structural issue - just a really lousy veneer job. As long as the frieze isn't remover, the brick's not going anywhere, and since it (the brick) bears no weight, repairs or modifications aren't paramount and will become more of an eye-sore than the existing condition.

It's unfortunate, but not a threat to structure or safety concern.

(Maybe when I see a bigger picture of it than on my phone, I might change my mind about the threat to safety)

In short, I'd fully disclose it as what it is: a cosmetic mess; an improper use of materials; a bad detail; all pretty much cosmetic.

Well, but I see this mistake fairly often, Mike, and lots of times the bricks are loose and can be moved by hand. Look at the upper/right corner of Ben's photo. The mortar's cracked and I'll bet the brick is loose. I ALWAYS say this should be repaired.

Agreed. If it's a danger, that changes everything. I'm just not a "it's wrong fix it guy." when it comes to masonry, that can land you in the immortal home inspector category, as folks say, "My God! What happened to your brickwork?" and the owner responds, "This was my home inspector's idea of a necessary repair." ... Oops...

In ALL situations similar to this one (cosmetic more than a real problem), I begin with a verbal discussion, like my previous post - essentially "it is what it is". Then, after being the voice of education and reason, I ask my client, "Where do you wish to go with this?" I honor my client's desire in cases like this.

[robert1966]

I have seen similar situations with no lintel or decayed metal lintels, all resulting if sagging as seen in your photo.

[Mike Lamb]

This is new construction. There may be an unsupported lintel here or maybe no lintel at all. The soldiers may be a RBM lintel as in Bill K's diagram or maybe not. And then a sweet caulk job on top of it all.

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[mgbinspect]

This is new construction. There may be an unsupported lintel here or maybe no lintel at all. The soldiers may be a RBM lintel as in Bill K's diagram or maybe not. And then a sweet caulk job on top of it all.

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Based upon that one picture, I believe that's probably a steel hung plate affair. The reason for the offset in coursing is that those aren't "standard" brick (3 courses for 8"). They appear to be modular brick (5 courses in 16") - hated them. Lol... (They're designed for production and reduce installation labor by approximately twenty percent. I saw them most in warehouses, schools, shopping centers, etc.).

I have real problems with wrapping and sealing support steel that's integral with masonry - ALWAYS a REALLY BAD IDEA, in my opinion. The masonry holds moisture which will condensate and linger on that cold steel to accelerate rust. Give that detail a few years and open it up to find a real disaster in the making - a lot of the same dynamics that go into Kurt's reason not to flash the backside of parapets.