StevenT Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 I took a test today and got one answer wrong. Alongside my answer I put an asterick with an explanation at the bottom of the page. I think I am correct and that the person that wrote the test is wrong. How would you answer the question? Question: There is no difference between an asphalt shingle and a architectural shingle. A. True B. False I answered A.True The explanation I added is that "an architectural shingle is made out of the same asphalt composition material (unless it is fiberglass composition)" They sent me back an explanation saying that "There is a difference between asphalt and architectural shingle. Asphalt shingle are the same size and laid down flat. Architectural shingles are different sizes and have a more of a textured/bumpy appearance." I always call the "flat" (3 tab shingles) shingles, "shingles" and I call the "more bumpy" shingles, "architectural shingles. I believe to say that an architectural shingle is not an asphalt composition shingle, is wrong. What say ye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Originally posted by StevenT Architectural shingles are different sizes... What say ye? I say that's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 I suspect that what they were really getting at is that architectural grade shingles last longer due to their laminated construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Originally posted by AHI in AR I suspect that what they were really getting at is that architectural grade shingles last longer due to their laminated construction. No, this had nothing to do with anything except a visual description in preparing a narrative. I sent them a memo telling them the author of the question is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, 3-tab and architectural-grade shingles are uniform in dimension and are made out of the same materials. There are different sizes when you compare Canadian shingles to US shingles but within types made in the same country, they are the same size. I'd insist that the person who provided that question and answer provide a valid reference for the assertion that they're a different size. One more example of a so-called trainer with his head tucked up his backside so far that only a proctologist can examine his teeth; and then only with a fiber-optic scope. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Bad question written by the mis-informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWagar Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 I think the trainer's doctor should prescribe a glass navel for him. So he can see because his head is up his a .... well you know where!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Was it one of those NY tests? Arlene P's. told some amazing stories about the dipsquat NY state licensing/education mess. The question means nothing, says nothing, about anything that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Originally posted by kurt Was it one of those NY tests? Arlene P's. told some amazing stories about the dipsquat NY state licensing/education mess. The question means nothing, says nothing, about anything that matters. Trying to fill in the gaps... large gaps, I have been doing alot of insurance inspections. The average inspection takes about 20 minutes. This past wednesday I did 14 inspections. One of them being 220,000 SF apt. building... it took 1 hour. lol. Mind you, I get the feeling I'm one of the more detail minded inspectors in the company. OK, these are for insurance companies and the information that the underwriters need really doesn't take more than 20 minutes to inspect. I do the work because, besides needing the chedder, it keeps me sharp inspection wise and regularly exposes me to things I would not normally run into. (fire supression, non combustive construction, commercial situations, etc.) The pay is so little that I am under the impression that this company is screwing me. For this reason I have been reaching out to other companies hoping that with my experience I can find a source. So far the pay still sucks. I did manage to hook up with a new company that is more nationally diverse. Yesterday I took a test (20 questions). This was the only question I got wrong. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a pipedream to form some type of a cooperative inspection service so the entire nation can be covered by competent inspectors (that is where you guys come in), and pay the inspectors at more reasonable rate. I have made a contact with a bank and am hoping to get their forclosure work. If anybody else has connections with a bank or insurance company... not a "dispatch" company, and can help get some type of thing going, it would be great. I know a few guys have been doing insurance inspections for alot longer than me, is this how it is? What can one expect? Is it possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I also think it's a bad question, because you could easily argue for either answer, and have solid points to make either way. They're both composition shingles, but one is a single layer and the other is multiple layers. If you're installing them, they're the same; if you're paying for them, they're not. They both keep water out the same way, but one lasts a lot longer than the other. They're the same, but different. Brian G. Sorta Like Jim Morrison & the Devil [:-dev3] [:-devil] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 What I have come to realize is that they are trying to teach people how to fill out one of their checklist reports and no more than that. They are calling three tab shingles, "asphalt shingles" and they are calling architectural shingles, "architectural shingle" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Originally posted by StevenT I took a test today and got one answer wrong. Alongside my answer I put an asterick with an explanation at the bottom of the page. I think I am correct and that the person that wrote the test is wrong. How would you answer the question? Question: There is no difference between an asphalt shingle and a architectural shingle. A. True B. False I answered A.True The explanation I added is that "an architectural shingle is made out of the same asphalt composition material (unless it is fiberglass composition)" They sent me back an explanation saying that "There is a difference between asphalt and architectural shingle. Asphalt shingle are the same size and laid down flat. Architectural shingles are different sizes and have a more of a textured/bumpy appearance." I always call the "flat" (3 tab shingles) shingles, "shingles" and I call the "more bumpy" shingles, "architectural shingles. I believe to say that an architectural shingle is not an asphalt composition shingle, is wrong. What say ye? I would say that is a judgement call. One could answer their question several ways depending upon how they look at the question. I would call it a poor question to ask on a test. They are different since they cut into different sized pieces, lay differently on a roof, typically different design life (flat - 20~30 years, architectural - 25+), etc. They are similar since they are constructed essentially of the same materials. Depending upon how the person asking the question meant it, either answer could be right. Just curious.. what test was this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 There is no difference between a dog and a rottweiler. A. True B. False - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Or Brandy and cognac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenT Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Originally posted by Jim Katen There is no difference between a dog and a rottweiler. A. True B. False - Jim Katen, Oregon That is PRECISELY my point. But I have decided that in this case, I am wrong. Although tecnically I am right, this 4 hour (approx.) class was given by a company that I am doing insurance inspections for. I realize that they don't really care about technical data, and they were trying to get across how they want their reports done. They have their own report system, and they want flat, 3 tab roof called; asphalt shingle... which it is. The architectural asphalt shingle, they want called architectural. The question would have been ok if they asked; "In our reporting system is there a diff..." It's their horse, they can ride it any way they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Originally posted by StevenT That is PRECISELY my point. But I have decided that in this case, I am wrong. Although tecnically I am right, this 4 hour (approx.) class was given by a company that I am doing insurance inspections for. I realize that they don't really care about technical data, and they were trying to get across how they want their reports done. They have their own report system, and they want flat, 3 tab roof called; asphalt shingle... which it is. The architectural asphalt shingle, they want called architectural. The question would have been ok if they asked; "In our reporting system is there a diff..." It's their horse, they can ride it any way they want. I understand. But if it were me, I couldn't help myself from messin' with them. I'd write "Three-tab asphalt" and "Architectural asphalt" on the reports and then gleefully wait for the reprimand to roll in. "Oh, gosh, I'm sorry," I'd say, "I just can't get used to using the wrong terms, I'll try to do better next time." - Jim in Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 This is why my insurance company marketing efforts several years ago failed. They had all their own ideas and words to describe materials and conditions that were outside "industry normal" descriptions. I forgot that they base all their information gathering on actuarial statistics; they could care less what the industry says about anything. Not surprisingly, they didn't take to my trying to reeducate them about what they should know and care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Steve T., Test aside, I bet some of the brethren would love to know how you go about finding that kind of work in this market. How about starting a separate topic on that subject in a marketing thread? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Chew Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Originally posted by StevenT I took a test today and got one answer wrong. Alongside my answer I put an asterick with an explanation at the bottom of the page. I think I am correct and that the person that wrote the test is wrong. How would you answer the question? Question: There is no difference between an asphalt shingle and a architectural shingle. A. True B. False I answered A.True The explanation I added is that "an architectural shingle is made out of the same asphalt composition material (unless it is fiberglass composition)" They sent me back an explanation saying that "There is a difference between asphalt and architectural shingle. Asphalt shingle are the same size and laid down flat. Architectural shingles are different sizes and have a more of a textured/bumpy appearance." I always call the "flat" (3 tab shingles) shingles, "shingles" and I call the "more bumpy" shingles, "architectural shingles. I believe to say that an architectural shingle is not an asphalt composition shingle, is wrong. What say ye? "What say ye?" I would have answered false without putting a lot of thought into it. For the question statement to be true, the terms asphalt shingle and architectural shingle would need to be identical and interchangeable. They are not. The first refers to the material from which the shingle is made while the second refers to the style of the shingle. I agree it is a poorly worded question and the explanation also leaves a lot to be desired. Jim's comment about dog and rottweiler is spot on. I would also assume that when they wrote "asphalt shingle" within the context of that question, they were really referring to 3-tab shingles. Based on their explanation, that assumption would have turned out to be correct. Also, many folks around here still call 3-tab shingles "asphalt shingles". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Walter, Doesn't the saying go "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" ? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Originally posted by Tom Raymond Walter, Doesn't the saying go "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" ? Tom And those who can't teach, teach home inspections. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 The words "textured" and "bumpy" are, IMHO, useless in this context. Add the phrase "For her pleasure" and they're far more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Originally posted by SonOfSwamp And, there is nothing particularly "architectural" (pertaining to architecture, or the principles thereof) about a dang roof shingle. Someone needs to explain that to the manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Similar to my kitchen stove, which is an "architectural" range. As opposed to, what exactly...(?)...... Don't you wish they'd turn back the clock 20 years and return to pound weight classifications for shingles, or come up with some meaningful description whereby you would know what they were talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Originally posted by kurt Similar to my kitchen stove, which is an "architectural" range. As opposed to, what exactly...(?)...... Don't you wish they'd turn back the clock 20 years and return to pound weight classifications for shingles, or come up with some meaningful description whereby you would know what they were talking about? I would vote for the latter, since turning the clock back would put me carrying them up the ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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