dtontarski Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I believe this has been discussed on this forum before, but my search for this past discussion wasn't successful. My recommendation that neutrals and grounds be isolated in a sub-panel with the installation of a separate bonded terminal bar for the grounds resulted in the home owner gathering all of the grounds and installing them under a single bonded lug. I couldn't make out the labeling on the lug regarding wire gauge and number of conductors it was rated for. Is this acceptable? If not - why and what code does it violate? Download Attachment: Clump of grounds in lug.jpg 62.62 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 It's not acceptable. If you want to quote a code source you'll need to find what code was applied at the time that the panel was installed. I don't think you'll find any regulation that allows multiple tapping under that lug. If you by chance have access to JLC's archives, look up the October 1993 issue - it has one of the better articles on wiring subpanels. The file I have seems to be too large to attach here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Originally posted by dtontarski I believe this has been discussed on this forum before, but my search for this past discussion wasn't successful. My recommendation that neutrals and grounds be isolated in a sub-panel with the installation of a separate bonded terminal bar for the grounds resulted in the home owner gathering all of the grounds and installing them under a single bonded lug. I couldn't make out the labeling on the lug regarding wire gauge and number of conductors it was rated for. Is this acceptable? If not - why and what code does it violate? The code section is 110.3(B). It's the one that says you have to install stuff according to its listing instructions. That lug certainly isn't intended to be used like that. If you could take it out and look carefully at it, you'd see markings that indicate what size wires the lug is designed for. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Hi, It's a main lug two-lug connector that's not being used for what it's designed for. It's designed to accommodate two wires only. For instance, a #6 and a 14ga together, but not that mess you've got there. Here's Hansen on the subject of two-lug connectors: "A common source of double tapping is at main lugs of a panel. However, note that the marking on the lug gives a minimum and maximum size: it is not properr to use the lug with a smaller conductor than shown on its marking." I just spend ten minutes word-searching two major electrical components manufacturers' sites and could not find them listed for use with more than one connector or anything other than main lugs. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtontarski Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisprickett Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Assuming that's a Square D Panel, they need one of these: Image Insert: 20.16 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 From todays inspection. Image Insert: 104.38 KB Image Insert: 90.66 KB Image Insert: 87.7 KB Image Insert: 140.48 KB Adding a bus bar would fix one of the items wrong with this panel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Phillip-- (And everyone else sending in close up pics which are out of focus) Some well intentioned advice here...when taking close up pics, most cameras require you to switch to macro mode. It only takes a few seconds, but if you don't, all we and your clients see are blurry photos. That makes it real hard to figure out what's actually going on in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Originally posted by Eric B It's not acceptable. If you want to quote a code source you'll need to find what code was applied at the time that the panel was installed. I don't think you'll find any regulation that allows multiple tapping under that lug. If you by chance have access to JLC's archives, look up the October 1993 issue - it has one of the better articles on wiring subpanels. The file I have seems to be too large to attach here. How do we access the archives? Couldn't easily find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 To access the JLC archives you just use the search box on the JLCOnline home page at http://www.JLCOnline.com . However, if you aren't a JLC Online member, you'll only be able to download a limited number of articles and you'd need to get a JLCOnline membership to access the rest. You might be able to find some previous discussions about this stuff here in the TIJ archives. Go to the home page and use the search feature. I suggest word searching either "lugs" or "terminals". OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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