gtblum Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 This door opens to a spa room that has an exterior exit door. I believe the double keyed deadbolt lock is there to prevent kids from getting into the spa room. What's the correct call on this? Emergency egress or preventing a kid from drowning? Click to Enlarge 28.76 KB Click to Enlarge 23.98 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 There's lots of ways to keep kids from drowning, only a couple ways to exit a burning home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Only the front (main egress door) is prohibited from having that type of lock on it. Why you ask? Because only 1 egress door is required in a house.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Only the front (main egress door) is prohibited from having that type of lock on it. Why you ask? Because, code check says " All doors require keyless operation from the interior." [311.4.4] Kurt's answer makes sense to me. Lock the top of the spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Because, code check says " All doors require keyless operation from the interior." [311.4.4] Then it seems to me that Code Check (once again) conflicts with most code officials' interpretation. I believe Darren is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWagar Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 In my opinion, correct or not, right or wrong, all double keyed locks are a fire safety hazard. During the panic that will inevitably exist during a house fire, the occupants will go to any exit door they can. If they cannot operate the lock they can .... die (or worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 If they cannot operate the lock they can .... die (or worse). Or worse? Wha?!! Oh my gawd! You don't mean something like being forced to kiss skanky Nancy Pelosi on the lips do you? Bleeaaaaachhhhh! Ptui, Ptui. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Where the hell is the listerine? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWagar Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 That is absolutely "or Worst" ... I think you just gave me nightmares for a long time to come ... damn you. Now I have to wash my mind out with a stiff wire brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Only the front (main egress door) is prohibited from having that type of lock on it. Why you ask? Because only 1 egress door is required in a house.... I disagree. That's not what the code says. It says that 1 egress door is required but that all egress doors shall be openable without a key. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 That's not how it's interpreted here. Only one exit door has to conform to that section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTL_Inspet_Man Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 In case of emergency - Break Glass - lol problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 "...1 egress door is required but that all egress doors shall be openable without a key... " Yes but only one is required for egress. Therefore only one is named egress. By the way, it has to be 3'0" to qualify as egress. Most doors besides el frente are 2'8" or twin 2'6". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newinspector1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 311.4.2 states that the required egress door must be 3 ft wide and 6'8" high. Other doors do not have to comply with the minimum dimensions. 311.4.4 All interior and exterior doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort. I interpret that to mean that only one egress is required, but if you have more than on interior or exterior door it can't have a double key deadbolt. "...1 egress door is required but that all egress doors shall be openable without a key... " Yes but only one is required for egress. Therefore only one is named egress. By the way, it has to be 3'0" to qualify as egress. Most doors besides el frente are 2'8" or twin 2'6". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 R311.4.2 Door type and size. The required exit door shall be a side-hinged door not less than 3 feet (914 mm) in width and 6 feet 8 inches (2032 mm) in height. Other doors shall not be required to comply with these minimum dimensions. "Other doors" are not egress doors, ergo, double deadbolts are not prohibited for them. I always advise against them, but you can't cite them as violations unless they are on the one required exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSpermo Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The code actually says - one EXIT door required - all EGRESS doors shall be openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knlwledge or effort. Code inspectors in my area interpret it to mean all EGRESS doors cannot have a double keyed lock. I agree with Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newinspector1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 311.4.4 All interior and exterior doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort. If it leads directly to the outside it is an egress door, only one egress door has to meet the required width. In this jurisdiction no double-key deadbolts are allowed. What the homeowner does after I issue the C/O is up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 newbie, If you represent the AHJ I'm sure you are aware that codes interpretation is decided where rubber meets road, that is, by the local authority. I think your view is too narrow, and might not hold up under an appeal. At our county AHJ an inspector wrote up builders for phone jacks in the "wrong" locations and for doorbells that did not work. Another mis-interp he made was an obscure state amendment that led him to think a smoke alarm had to be in any room where there was a fireplace. One of his troubles was he could barely read a newspaper, let alone a code book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newinspector1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Mr. Baird Inspectors interpret the code differently as I am sure you know. I am not that new anymore as I have been doing this for a while. I am sorry that you think my view is to narrow, but that is your opinion and I respect it. As far as an appeal goes I am sure that it would hold up. I don't fail contractors for petty things, but this is a life safety issue that will not be passed in my jurisdiction. Unlike the inspector that you made a reference to I am very capable of reading a newspaper. By the way sarcasm is like a second language to me.[:-slaphap[:-slaphap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Newbie, By no means did I mean to imply that you were not literate enough to read the book, but wanted to share a story about real life, real time incompetence that Ihave witnessed. That should not surprise anyone either. In our state the AHJ can hire anyone, including in-laws and cousiins, to inspect, but if the John Public hires his own it must be a professional engineer. Most contractors, when faced with bad rulings, just grit their teeth and comply rather than fight City Hall. As you likely know most homeowners, especially on doors with glazing, will install dbl keyed locks after the inspector leaves because they are afraid of easy access by burglars. Often they leave the key there as a substitute thumb latch and pull the key if they leave the premises.[:-graduat[:-graduat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newinspector1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Mr. Baird Sorry for the misunderstanding. In our state you have to be approved by the code officials qualification boardwhich is governed by the state. That is after you pass an exam through a local college. Experience is also required, however I am by no means a professional engineer. I, too, have witnessed incompetence by contractors and inspectors. There is no doubt contractors/inspectors that manage to get by the college test and the state test. There are times that the contractor and myself disagree on building, plumbing, mechanical, electrical, and fire issues[:-thumbu], but for the most part I have a good relatiuonship with the people that come and do work in this jurisdiction. Yes I believe that 95% of HO install double key deadbolts after the C/O is issued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Home owners are a funny bunch, they insist on securing a glazed door with a potentially dangerous lock but they never worry about the rest of the glass in the house. It requires far less effort to kick a door in, deadbolt or not, than it does to break through a tempered glass door light. Besides, if I were going to break into a house, the front door is the last place I'd start. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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