Phillip Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 What do you thinks is causing the insulation boards to show like this? Click to Enlarge 67.08 KB Click to Enlarge 62.15 KB It is suppose to be Aggre-flex Drainage EIFS. I did not see the drain places Click to Enlarge 57.54 KB Click to Enlarge 31.59 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 uh oh....... I gotta believe the things got water in the walls. Regardless, it can't be good to have the sheathing/substrate buckling like that. No drains for a drainage plane type material means somebody didn't know what they were doing. In your climate, it can't be good. Good pics. We were discussing/arguing about pics and how to display concerns over @ the ASHI site. I'd use these as an example of how to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Are you sure it's foam boards underneath? When I took the schooling in EIFS, the foam boards didn't come in that size. I'll betcha it's cement boards. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi Phillip, Did you scan those walls for moisture? I'm in Kurt's school on this; where the hell is the drainage plane at the bottom of that wall and over those windows? How were the perimeters of those windows detailed? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 While I fully agree that there is no proper drainage at the bottom of the wall, I'm not so sure that moisture is the main issue. If so, I'd expect to see more buckling/uneven surfaces closer to (and concentrated around) the windows. And certainly below them. In the pics, the surface "irregularity" seems to be pretty uniform. I suspect poor application details, but not limited to a lack of detailing due to water penetration around openings in the wall. Whatever the substrate is, I think it's probably improperly adhered or it's too susceptible to expansion/contraction issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 By the angle of the sunlight, you were obviously there at the right time to see that irregularity. Sometimes you're just in the right place at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 While I fully agree that there is no proper drainage at the bottom of the wall, I'm not so sure that moisture is the main issue. If so, I'd expect to see more buckling/uneven surfaces closer to (and concentrated around) the windows. And certainly below them. In the pics, the surface "irregularity" seems to be pretty uniform. I suspect poor application details, but not limited to a lack of detailing due to water penetration around openings in the wall. Whatever the substrate is, I think it's probably improperly adhered or it's too susceptible to expansion/contraction issues. With E.I.F.S. you must also take into account vapor diffusion from the interior. The warmer moisture-laden air in every home migrates uniformly outward through all exterior walls toward the cooler and drier exterior at night through a process called vapor diffision. When it enters the E.I.F.S. lamina it can cool to dewpoint and condense inside the lamina. Vapor diffusion has been known to generate enough moisture to totally destroy wall sheathing, so it's not a stretch to expect that if it becomes trapped behind an E.I.F.S. lamina that doesn't have any provisions for drainage that it could cause strange things to happen within that lamina. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I did not scan it for moisture. wish now that I did. The company that installed the E.I.F.S. does not response to the home owner request about the problem. The manufacturer list different items that could be causing this when they looked at it. They mainly said it was from settlement of the house. I am inclined to believe it was improperly installed since there are other details that not right. The E.I.F.S.inspector that I refer say it sounds like it is installed wrong. The whole house shows the boards doing this. John you ar right. The sun at the angle it was may for a better view. Marc, the boards are the size the manufacturer calls for. Kurt, I have seen the discussing/arguing about pics and how to display concerns over @ the ASHI site. The camera is a cheap Olympus ($80) set on it lowest setting for size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Phillip, I think Kurt was commenting more on the composition than the image quality. That has everything to do with the operator and little or nothing to do with the equipment. Great shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 The most common cause for what is showing up in Phillips photos has to due with the original installation. The edges of each foam board must be rasped or sanded so that they have no protruding edges. All gaps between the boards must be filled in with small pieces of foam. Based on the photos I would say that this step was not done. The next most common cause is poor adhesion of the foam to the substrate. Another cause is the lack of the fiberglass reinforcing mesh and the direct application of the base and lamina or in some cases the complete absence of the base coat and only the application of the lamina or the finish coat onto the foam boards. If you notice that the area around the second floor expansion joint is smooth with little to no visible ridges. This is telling me that the problem has more to do with the adhesion of the foam to the substrate. The foam boards look like common 3x4 sheets of EPS based on the photos. Regardless of who or what the problem is, it is wrong and it will only get worse with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 The most common cause for what is showing up in Phillips photos has to due with the original installation. The edges of each foam board must be rasped or sanded so that they have no protruding edges. All gaps between the boards must be filled in with small pieces of foam. Based on the photos I would say that this step was not done. The next most common cause is poor adhesion of the foam to the substrate. Another cause is the lack of the fiberglass reinforcing mesh and the direct application of the base and lamina or in some cases the complete absence of the base coat and only the application of the lamina or the finish coat onto the foam boards. Regardless of who or what the problem is, it is wrong and it will only get worse with time. I'd say it could be all of those. Maybe there's no water, but you're right, it's only going to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoreyTurcotte Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Are you sure it's foam boards underneath? When I took the schooling in EIFS, the foam boards didn't come in that size. I'll betcha it's cement boards. I would have to agree with Marc on this one. The foam comes in 2x4 pieces, and from what I see there it does not look like a standard size foam piece. If it is cement board it would look just like that. If it was the foam not being rasped (sanded) then the pieces would be 2x4. I have been in the EIFS industry for over 20 years, and that would be my first thing to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't think Phillip would have mistaken cement boards for foam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoreyTurcotte Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have seen many jobs where you can see the out line of each piece of foam in the right sunlight, but that is the worst case I have ever seen. If indeed it is not cement board than measure the pieces, and see if they are 2x4.. If they are 2'x4' then maybe it is that it just did not get rasped, and the sun is showing every piece of foam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 It was foam. There where some damaged places that you could see the foam and it sounded like foam when tapped on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.