Denray Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 200 amp main to 200 amp sub. No equipment ground to sub. Some 3 prong outlets don't test grounded. Seems like only real cure is to have equipment ground to sub then put equips on ground bar bonded to sub? Right? Click to Enlarge 25.69 KB Click to Enlarge 37.13 KB Click to Enlarge 40.38 KB Click to Enlarge 37.26 KB Click to Enlarge 19.44 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Pretty much. What's with the big, fat, 4-wire cable that enters the upper left side of the box and doesn't connect to anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I think you are right. Because it is the work of an amateur, I would also warn that there may be hidden defects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 What fat cable? Click to Enlarge 31.5 KB Click to Enlarge 42.66 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Future hot tub, Jim. You know the one out on the deck with the peg legs and no lagscrews? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The lack of EGC has nothing to do with your your reading grounds at receptacles. They have the ground and neutrals landed on the neutral bar, so those equipment grounds are essentially just like in a main panel. They would get their path from the neutral. I would not worry about the solution, it's not your job to tell them how to fix it. I would just defer to an electrician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The lack of EGC has nothing to do with your your reading grounds at receptacles. They have the ground and neutrals landed on the neutral bar, so those equipment grounds are essentially just like in a main panel. They would get their path from the neutral. I would not worry about the solution, it's not your job to tell them how to fix it. I would just defer to an electrician. Some home inspectors are also electricians, HVAC professionals or have experience in other trades like framing. They can serve the buyer better by making use of these qualifications. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 But, he hit the head on the nail with me. Thanks for the replies. I still don't see the fat cable in the top left.[:-paperba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I see it too, Jim. It goes all the way to the bottom of the panel and the end rests on the bottom of the enclosure and has overspray on it. Looks like this guy didn't realize there should have been a ground bus secured to the enclosure on the left side, the EGC's should have been connected to that ground bus, along with that #4, and the bonding strap should never have been used to bond the enclosure to the bus on the right side. What do you think - they used the metal conduit enclosing the service lateral for the service ground maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Some home inspectors are also electricians, HVAC professionals or have experience in other trades like framing. They can serve the buyer better by making use of these qualifications. Marc Personally, I still see it as improper to suggest specific fixes. I've seen way too many HI reports in my day with bogus correction advice, especially in the electrical section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 What do you think - they used the metal conduit enclosing the service lateral for the service ground maybe? That might have been fine, but the conduit at least to my eyes is plastic. Amateurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denray Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 OK, I turned the light on. I see it. It's a 200 amp sub. Perhaps, someday, there was going to be a big feed to the rather large garage. The whole converted garage thing must have been done by the same person. Steep stairs with first riser way high and a head banger on ceiling. Door to the laundry room/sub panel swings over steps. Seems strange that the building inspector signed off on that feed from the main, and I guess the rest of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeePlace Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I do not see a bonding jumper from the grounding bar to the panel enclosure. I do see two types of NM Cable that are from different eras and I do not remember yellow jacket prior to mid 90s. Also there are two type of OCPDs and wire management styles. I feel that it would be a stretch for you to think that the inspection in 1988 covered all that you see in the panel. Also do not assume that all the other work (stairs, door) were signed off as well. When was the house built? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 That's because there isn't any grounding bar, there is a grounded bus, sometimes referred to as a "neutral" bus. This being a sub-panel, there should have been both a grounded bus and an equipment-grounding bus but the equipment-grounding bus has been omitted and they configured this like a service disconnect panelboard by bonding the grounded buses to the enclosure. The bond strap is there. It's gray steel and it's dead center on the grounded bus. Look closely at the second photo and you will see it connected. Then look more closely at the third photo because it's gray steel and it's blending in with the panel. You can barely make out the end of that bond strap where it connects to that large bond hole at the center of the top grounded bus and then it's either out of focus or simply blends so well that it's almost invisible where it's connected to the enclosure but it is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Some home inspectors are also electricians, HVAC professionals or have experience in other trades like framing. They can serve the buyer better by making use of these qualifications. Marc Personally, I still see it as improper to suggest specific fixes. I've seen way too many HI reports in my day with bogus correction advice, especially in the electrical section. So have I. That's why I don't punt to electricians much. I just tell them what to do. I look after my clients. On a report I'm working on, I recommend an electrician inspect the entire electrical installation, complete a load analysis, etc because the issues were simply too widespread and numerous for me to do as an HI. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brric Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 That's because there isn't any grounding bar, there is a grounded bus, sometimes referred to as a "neutral" bus. This being a sub-panel, there should have been both a grounded bus and an equipment-grounding bus but the equipment-grounding bus has been omitted and they configured this like a service disconnect panelboard by bonding the grounded buses to the enclosure. The bond strap is there. It's gray steel and it's dead center on the grounded bus. Look closely at the second photo and you will see it connected. Then look more closely at the third photo because it's gray steel and it's blending in with the panel. You can barely make out the end of that bond strap where it connects to that large bond hole at the center of the top grounded bus and then it's either out of focus or simply blends so well that it's almost invisible where it's connected to the enclosure but it is there. You sure have better eyes than I do. All I see is shadows from the flash and an empty hole from which the strap was probably removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.